Ramzi: Mr. Shoebat , I am totally opposed to your
positions!
Walid: I am glad that we have people who can object - it's
only in a free world that two parties can oppose each other and live in
peace. Today we have Hamas and PA killing each other. How is that a free
society?
Ramzi: you are a person who lost all his roots!
Walid: I Disagree, for several reasons:
1 - I only accepted the one who came to my hometown. Jesus was from
Bethlehem. However, most Muslims in "Palestine" chose to go to a desert
religion far away in Arabia. My roots connect to that land where Jesus
walked. I follow a faith of a Bethlehemite and not an Arabian.
2 - Why is it that when Jews stand with "Palestine", you don't accuse them
of loosing there roots? What about Germans who died as a result for standing
up against Hitler. Do you accuse them of loosing their roots?
Why is it that if anyone objects to the Palestinian dogma, that only they
are accused of loosing their roots?
3 - I am from the Holy Land, I was born there, neither you or anyone can
take away my roots. It seems to me that you feel free to unroot people and
to root others as you wish. You want to root out Jews from Palestine, yet
keep Palestinians in Israel.
Why Arabs should have a right to live in Israel, yet Jews are not allowed to
live in Palestine?
4 - What roots are we talking about? Before 1967 we were Jordanians, and
before that we considered ourselves Syrians, and only after 1967, the people
who live in historic Judea have clinged to becoming Palestinains. So what
roots are you talking about?
5 - The Palestinian Charter never included Judea or Gaza as part of
"Palestine". Only after loosing the war in 1967 the charter was changed.
Why?
6 - We all had Jordanian Passports all along. Why is it that we wanted to
establish a Palestinian state in Jordan? And when King Hussein decided to
throw out that brat named Yasser Arafat, they lost that hope of creating a
state there? Why are Palestinains not trying to create a Palestinian state
in Jordan? Why only in historic Judea?
7 - I still listen to Arab songs - I love George Wassuf, Abd Alhalim,
Um-Kulthum, Fairuz.... I still eat falafel, Hummus, speak Arabic....so I am
still well connected to my culture. I hate your war somgs, Hamas
Anasheed....
How is that loosing my roots?
What roots are you talking about? My terror roots? My racist roots? My old
biggoted opinions?
Do Americans loose their roots for being liberal? Conservative? Pro
Abortion? Pro civil rights? Pro Palestinian? Pro Israel?
How does one loose their roots Ramzi?
Ramzi: as a palestinian born and raised IN PALESTINE, In
Bethlehem! I never was told to hate anybody!
Walid: Then why do you hate me so much?
So you mean to tell me that what Naim A'yyad my Islamic teacher in high
school taught us that killing Jewish civilians is ok, that all this is a lie
I made up?
Are you telling me that when Arafat went to mosques and asked women to give
him their children for suicide Jihad that all these are lies?
That when Hamas taught that in the end of days "the stones will cry out,
there is a Jew hiding behind me, come Oh slave of Allah, come and kill him."
Are you saying that all these are fabrications?
That all the hate filled cartoons, Holocaust denial, suicide bombings,
writtings on the walls that calls for killing Jews in order to go to heaven
are all lies?
Oh my God. Have I been decieved?
Thank you so much for helping me to re-discover my roots.
Ramzi: Your positions about israel show clearly that you
are biased and that you don't know much about what is happening!
Walid: So far you have not shown or proved anything except
your hatred for anyone who opposes your views. You have not shared anything
worth while to dialogue over.
Ramzi: I suggest that you come and live One week in
bethlehem! Maybe you will be able to know what being a palestinian nowadays
means!
Walid: So the killings and hangings of Arab teenagers by
other Arabs upside down, and all the draggings on the streets of Bethlehem
are all fake?
The executions of Palestinians by Palestinains are all fake?
I saw them on video. Are all these videos fake? Did the Zionists make these
up?
Ramzi: I hope that you dont hold the palestinian
nationality and count on me to proove you wrong no matter what you say!
Walid: I think you understand me totally wrong. I WANT YOU
TO PROVE ME WRONG.
For if you do, then indeed we would have peace.
Peace at last, peace at last, peace at last.
Ramzi: I WENT TO RAMALLAH And held a Poster condemning
Terrorism! I held the same poster in bethlehem and in jordan!
Walid: Can you send me photos of that so I can post them on
my web? I would love to show the peaceful side of Palestinians. I think you
do not understand me.
This will serve my goal of seeing Palestinians march for true peace.
I shall await for these photos.
Ramzi: On CN8 you said that you cant do it! It is your
problem!
Walid: Prove me wrong and I will appologize on TV.
Another request - Can you send me a photo of you in Gaza carrying the same
poster?
I want a poster of you stating "Suicide Bombing is Evil" and another that
states "Killing innocent Jews in buses is Evil"
I do not want a photo of you after the fact and in a coffin. I want a photo
with you still alive.
Ramzi: You don't know who we are or what we stand for!
Walid: Well, it seems that who you are is obvious from your
next remark:
Ramzi: I hope deeply from the heart that you will spend the
rest of your life in the USA or in Israel
Walid: So anyone who would object to your views should not
live in your state? How does that express any freedom? How is that peaceful?
It seems to me that anyone who does not agree with your party line should
not be allowed to live in your country?
Truth can be read between the lines.
Yet what kind of a country is it when conscientious objectors
cannot express their views, but have no right to live in that society.
Are conscientious objectors traitors? And if so, are they to be evacuated?
Ramzi: we absolutely don't need you back here!
Walid: So then you would approve as well with my land to be
confiscated as well? I own land there. Who are you? Are you God? You can
only decide who can and who cannot live in their country?
Ramzi: By the way, FOR YOUR INFORMATION rootless person
Walid: Rootless person? Now you are resorting to insults.
Ramzi: i will never forget the house of my Grandfather in
Mamila ,Jerusalem, occupied since 1948 by a certain jewish family! there is
something called compensation and i am waiting for it to come!
Walid: That's fair. But would you also say that Jews who
lost their homes in Iraq, Lybia, Lebanon, Egypt, Morroco.... should also get
compensation?
Ramzi: Meanwhile, keep the good work
Walid: Now I am confused. On the one hand you act cruel,
and here you are acting nice.
Is it normal for Palestinains to have more then just a dual citizenship?
Once they are Jordanians, and then they are Palestinians.
Now I see a dual personality.
Is that part of the Palestinian makeup of a society?
I see this dual personality everywhere in Palestinain society. Arafat
infront of western cameras makes a vow for peace when he speaks English,
then in Arabic he speaks like a devil.
When we used to get together as Arabs, we would confess to each other that
Arabs sold their land to Jews, yet when westerners ask us, we say that Jews
stole everything.
Just tell me, who exactly are you? Jekyll & Mr.Hide?
Ramzi: and again, count on me to burn you politically!
Walid: I can't wait. Actually I am looking forward to it.
When would you like to take me on?
In fact, I am publishing our debate, it helps to serve my argument, that in
Palestine, there is only one party line, Islam is the state religion, no
tolerance for minority opinion, no rights for Jews to live freely in
"Palestine" and no rights for Jewish Holy places to exist and be Jewish. All
Synagogues must be converted to mosques, harrasments and desecrations of
Christian holy places.....I could go on and on.
Ramzi: People like you dont deserve any kind of attention!
Walid: It seems like you are giving me attention here. I
did not write you, you wrote to me.
Ask yourself, why are you paying attention to me?
To the point that you state that I should count on you to burn me
politically. I bet you would love to burn me physically as well. Don't you?
Ramzi: But i will never allow you to ruin our image!
Walid: Why are you accusing me of ruining your image?
You are already destroying your own image. No one has to do that for you.
The world already views Palestinains as terrorists no thanks to your
political leadership which espouses terror, having children blow themselves
up, educating kids to grow up to become suicide killers, teaching
intolerance to anyone who opposes the main stream opinions.
Look at yourself Ramzi. You are burning your image already by your hatred of
me. You do not want me to come home. You hate me for the simple reason of
having a different view then yours. Had this been a public dialogue, it
would be evident that you have zero tolerance for any other view except
yours. This would devestate your view.
But don't burn yourself Ramzi. You have been burned for decades. You have
been burned by being used as a pawn by Arab countries, keeping you as
refugees for decades while blaming the Israelis.
You have been used as pawns when Arab leaders ordered your people to
evacuate in 1948 and 1967.
You have been used as pawns by your own leadership, yet you keep blaming
Jews for everything under the sun.
Wake up Ramzi, lest you drown yourself in your own hatred.
Walid: Only racists claim victimhood when they ignore what
they do to others.
We chased 850,000 Jews out of Arab lands. Are they too, not victims?
Suck it up. Grow up. Quit your belly aching, and stop that victimhood
paranoia.
Arabs want their homes back.
I have the ultimate solution for your "victimhood" problem:
No one has a right of return, neither Arabs who left in 48 and 67 have a
right to return to Israel, and neither Jews who left in 48 have a right of
return to Arab lands.
This should end all this mess.
Yet you will not agree to that.
This is my question to you. Yet I doubt that you can respond, since if you
do, it will prove that double standard you were raised to feel.
Yet you still bicker and foam at the mouth. Nothing will make you happy.
Ramzi: I see checkpoints everyday!
Walid: Again, only racists would see the problems done to
them without seeing what they do to others.
Palestinians are smuggling bombs and you want Israel to open chekpoints?
Let's look at the log in our Arab eye before we look at the spec in our
Jewish cousins.
Ramzi: I LIVE THE OCCUPATION EVERY DAY!
Walid: You think Israel was bad? Wait till Hamas takes full
control and Islamists would rule over you, then don't complain to me about
victimhood.
We declared a war on Israel in 1967, we lost, and now you are crying about
an occupation?
What about the Jordanian Occupation? Jordan took that land illegally, yet
you NEVER ONCE objected and wanted liberty. Why?
Why you never called it Jordanian Occupation?
Why is it only an Israeli occupation?
Could it be that the answer is simpler then you think?
While the world keeps saying that the problem is complicated.
The problem is simple - WE WERE RACISTS. WE HATED JEWS.
This is the only reason why we never objected to a Jordanian Occupation, and
we screamed victimhood when Israel won the war that we declared.
Ramzi: I feel it everyday! I get yelled at everyday by
israeli occupation forces! I see people Dying everyday because israel doenst
allow us to have our basic needs!
Walid: Nonsense. Stop bombing buses, sing songs of peace,
demonstrate all over for peace, then see how Jews will fall backwards for
you.
Yet what did you do instead:
- You ellect Hamas and proved to the world that you are racists.
- You cut your ambilical cord by wanting to sever your ties with Israel, to
later complain about Israel keeping you out.
- You kept on carrying olive branches in one hand, while you carry a bomb in
the other.
Ramzi: I would love to see you waiting in a line on a
checkpoint to go from your home to your work and then being turned back by a
person 20 years younger than you!
Walid: I lived there for 18 years. I had to carry my I.D, I
had to go through checkpoints all the time, but don't forget, when the
checkpoints relaxed a litte, I also carried a bomb to blow up Israeli
infrastructure.
Yet I saw what I did wrong. I saw why Israelis put check points. I changed
my heart and mind. I stopped playing the victim. I moved on with my life.
And when I did. I wasn't allowed to go back home.
You already expressed your view above that we should not be allowed to come
home.
What about my land? Who stole my land Ramzi? Was it Israel? Or was it
Palestinians?
Ramzi: I would love to see you begging for a permit in
order to live!
Walid: I can go to Israel any time, walk anywhere, and even
pray as I wish whether Muslim or Christian.
Yet I can't go home to your "Palestine", why?
Why can I go to Israel but not to Palestine?
Why when truth hits your directly in the face you reject it? Why when facts
are so obvious you reject it?
The answer is simple, it's a state of heart. It has nothing to do with
education, victimhood, poverty.....it's a racist mind.
Ramzi: I would love to see you crying for the loss of your
child who got shot without having anythign to do with any conflict! Just for
the Fact of standing next to a window in front of a snipper, this was the
case of my friend Moussa Abu Eid from beit jalah! I
Walid: Listen you num nuts, I lost several from my family.
My cousin was killed by Israeli bullets. Yes Jews killed my cousin, yet my
cousin was on his way to Ben Yehuda street to plant a bomb.
How come we compalined about his death, and forgot his crime?
The answer is simple - only a racist would see what people do to them, while
they forget what they do to others of a different race.
I also lost two women from my family when Israelis hit Muhammad Abayat with
a missle. They were innocent.
Yet you gave refuge to people like Abayat. You allowed him to live in your
midst knowing fully what he does. You approved of his actions. Yet when he
fixed himself to live amongst civilians to kill civilians, and when you
knowingly knew what you were doing, and when the Israelis had to kill him
for killing innocent Jews, and when only Arab civilians died, you objected.
Yet you never objected when Abayat killed innocent Israelis. Why?
Yes innocent people die on all sides. But peace can only come when we look
into our actions, and not only to our enemies reactions.
Yet you forget that you are from Beit Jala, and when terrorists occupied
Christian homes to shoot at civilians in Gilo, you never objected. Yet you
only object at what the Israelis do?
Again, you are 100% racist.
It would be impossible for me to make you see that. It has to be your inner
soul that needs to see it.
Ramzi: would love to see you humiliated by an israeli
soldier, these people that you admire so much!
Walid: Again, you forget that I was in prison in Jerusalem.
Yes prison is a humiliation for anyone. What else do you want Israel to do
with terrorists? Give them apartments?
They already gave them guns - 40,000 to be exact given to the PA Police.
What did the PA Police do? They stood by while Joseph's Tomb was burned by
our people. Every holy place for Jews was desecrated.
Shame on you for being so silent on this.
I however have nothing to be ashamed of. I got rid of my bigotry, racism,
and hatred. I am free at last, free at last free at last.
Jesus came to give us peace, love, and freedom. This is something you never
experienced. It's because you yourself are a victim, not a victim of the
Israelis, but a victim to slavery - the slavery of hatred, the slavery of
racism, the slavery of a system imposed on you by Arab imperialism.
Yes Palestinians need to be free, yes we have an occupation - an occupation
of the mind and not land.
When Jesus came, they thought that He came to get rid of the occupation by
the Romans. Instead, He stunned everyone, that He came to rid us from the
occupation of our own sins.
Yet Jews never occupied anything if you look at reality, they simply
liberated the land from the Jordanian occupiers, and when they did, and only
because they were JEWS, you screamed in pain and agony.
Ramzi: I would love to see your house demolished because
you are suspected of knowing an activist in this or that organization! I
would love to see you walking above road blocks in order to try to pass from
your house to your neighbours house!
Walid: Is there anything else you can offer besides whine?
You never objected to all the bomb factories, the suicide belts, the dead
Palestinian brainwashed kids...
Can you imagine how the world would be like if judges where all like you?
You cannot balance truth from fiction, right from wrong...
Ramzi: i would love to see you living a palestinian life
for just 1 HOUR!
Walid: Again, you keep forgetting who you are talking to
here.
I lived there for 18 years.
Let me turn this around so you can see how I feel.
I would love to see you loose your land to be taken by your own relatives
for the simple reason of becoming Christian. I would love to see you get a
letter from your Jerusalem Christian Arab lawyer which states "You cannot
come home to Palestine, not only you will loose your land if you come home,
but you will loose your son since he was born Muslim"
Have you put yourself in my shoes?
Probably not, since you do not care about anyone else but your party line.
I would love to see you convert from Islam to Christianity, then go to Saudi
Arabia and declare that in public.
I would love to see you as a Christian Sudanese, then move to Sudan and see
how you get treated. Yet you elected the very system that persecuted anyone
who was not Muslim.
Governments are always elected to fit the state of the people's hearts.
When Germans elected Nazism, they have only themselves to blame and no one
else.
I would love to see how your wife and kids will be treated as well in an
Arab society that would hate you and will kill you for converting from
Islam.
Ramzi: By the way, after sending this email, i will contact
a few local authorities to see if you really are from Bethlehem, which i
doubt! I even doubt your very own existence, or at least , the past you are
talking about!
Walid: Ok, you have made a bet with me. I will take you on.
I will prove that I am from there, and can prove I lived there for 18 years.
The payment for this bet is if I prove you wrong, that you would agree to
carry a sign in Gaza which will say "down with Hamas terror"
You would do that for only ONE HOUR.
Then you will understand what it feels like to live in a true occupation -
the occupation of Hamas.
Palestinian since forever! With a Palestinian Great Grandfather ....
palestinian FOREVER and ever AMEN!
Walid: Was your great grand father's father born in
"Palestine?" Was your father Palestinian? Does his ID say he was
Palestinian?
Well, you claim to be Christian, the Bible calls it Judea:
"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the
thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto
me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings
forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting."
So when the king comes, you better evacuate that Islamist puppet regime,
change your flags, your maps, and get ready to bow down to the Jewish King.
Top Executive Media <lalric@verizon.net> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 1:45 PM
I am totally opposed to your positions! you are a person who lost
all his roots! I , as a palestinian born and raised IN PALESTINE, In
Bethlehem! I never was told to hate anybody! Your positions about
israel show clearly that you are biased and that you don't know much
about what is happening! I suggest that you come and live One week
in bethlehem! Maybe you will be able to know what being a
palestinian nowadays means! I hope that you dont hold the
palestinian nationality and count on me to proove you wrong no
matter what you say! I WENT TO RAMALLAH And held a Poster
condemning Terrorism! I held the same poster in bethlehem and in
jordan! On CN8 you said that you cant do it! It is your problem!
You don't know who we are or what we stand for! I hope deeply from
the heart that you will spend the rest of your life in the USA or in
Israel, we absolutely don't need you back here! By the way, FOR YOUR
INFORMATION rootless person, i will never forget the house of my
Grandfather in Mamila ,Jerusalem, occupied since 1948 by a certain
jewish family! there is something called compensation and i am
waiting for it to come! Meanwhile, keep the good work and again,
count on me to burn you politically! People like you dont deserve
any kind of attention! But i will never allow you to ruin our image
! We are VICTIMS! I see checkpoints everyday! I LIVE THE OCCUPATION
EVERY DAY! I feel it everyday! I get yelled at everyday by israeli
occupation forces! I see people Dying everyday because israel doenst
allow us to have our basic needs! I would love to see you waiting in
a line on a checkpoint to go from your home to your work and then
being turned back by a person 20 years younger than you! I would
love to see you begging for a permit in order to live! I would love
to see you crying for the loss of your child who got shot without
having anythign to do with any conflict! Just for the Fact of
standing next to a window in front of a snipper, this was the case
of my friend Moussa Abu Eid from beit jalah! I would love to see you
humiliated by an israeli soldier, these people that you admire so
much! I would love to see your house demolished because you are
suspected of knowing an activist in this or that organization! I
would love to see you walking above road blocks in order to try to
pass from your house to your neighbours house! i would love to see
you living a palestinian life for just 1 HOUR! By the way, after
sending this email, i will contact a few local authorities to see if
you really are from Bethlehem, which i doubt! I even doubt your very
own existence, or at least , the past you are talking about!
Palestinian since forever! With a Palestinian Great Grandfather ....
palestinian FOREVER and ever AMEN!
