TODD HUDNALL, SR. PASTOR, FIRST ASSEMBLY OF GOD OF SAN DIEGO
PRESENTATION OF RICK WARREN'S PDC
TO NAIROBI PENTECOSTAL CHURCH
NAIROBI, KENYA
NOVEMBER 8-11, 2005
WITH COMMENTARY BY JAMES SUNDQUIST
& CONTRIBUTING EDITOR AND COMMENTARY BY PASTOR BOB DEWAAY
Upon receiving many emails around the
world from concerned Christians that their church or country is being taking
over or “transformed” by Rick Warren's Purpose Driven Church model and his
Global Peace Plan, and others asking me how does one know their own church has
become Purpose-Driven, I felt compelled to write this article in response to
these distress SOS calls for help.
There is a recent
article posted on this very transformation and how to identify it entitled:
Are you in the throes of Transformation?
http://herescope.blogspot.com/
The article was so brilliant, I
decided that it would be very constructive to the body of Christ to build on
that very theme as well as clear up a lot of confusion. What follows is both an
update and a case study of how Rick Warren is taking over churches and
countries. One of the main presentations of Warren's Saddleback Church staff
was given by Todd Hudnall, who is also Senior Pastor of the First Assembly of
God Church (see Appendix C) in San Diego, California, who will also be a
featured speaker at the Purpose Driven Conference in Florida in April 2006:
http://www.purposedriven.com/en-US/Events/PurposeDrivenPentecostalCharismatic-LakeForestCA/Uncompromised_speakers.htm
Excerpts from the Purpose Driven
Church Conference:
TODD HUDNALL:
In behalf of Rick Warren...
The message we are sharing you could
call an operating system for the church. Without the Intel chip, the computer
would not work. I believe that the Purpose Driven
Church model is a processing chip for the Church of Jesus Christ. I believe it
works whether it is in San Diego, California, or Kenya Africa. It works because
it is God's purpose. It is God's plan....And what God has done through
Dr. Rick Warren is provide a model which we can fulfill those purposes and
become the prevailing church that God wants us to be....This message is very
Biblical.
RESPONSE:
Well this message is
very much NOT Biblical. The operating system for the church is not an object.
It is a Person...the Person of Jesus Christ and the Person of the Holy Spirit
(who will lead you in all truth). Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of
our salvation whether in the First Century or the 21st Century.
Jesus did not say apart from a computer chip you can not operate but he said
“apart from ME you can do nothing!” So Hudnall's and Warren's premise is
fatally flawed. And even if the operating system for the church is an Intel
Chip, computers didn't even exist in the church for nineteen hundred years. So
how did the church function all of these years without this chip? How did the
church function before this chip? According to so-called "post-moderns' and
PDCer's, it didn't. The old model (the Biblical "preaching Jesus Christ,"
repentance, being born again, warning of coming judgment, Hell) is a dismal
failure. What audacity to proclaim that Rick Warren's method holds the key that
throughout the ages the church has missed. Maybe this is why they are so intent
on re-writing the Bible and promoting perverse translations of it!
At the end of this
conference Hudnall changed the definition from “a processing chip” to the
processing chip or model for the 21st Century Church. This boastful
statement means that every church which does not have Rick Warren's
purpose-driven model is outside of God's plan. If you don't go along with it,
they claim they will try to help you find another church you are happy with.
But why would you want to do that, if in so doing you would by conclusion be
OUTSIDE of God's Plan. There are a great number of accounts in which there is
not even another local church to send them packing to because all the
surrounding churches too have become purpose-driven. And even if the analogy of
the “Intel Chip” were true...that the operating system for the church must be
run by this chip, then the chip is defective because it would recognize that the
model would not work in a computer which was a synagogue or Roman Catholic
church because these are another gospel. This operating system which they claim
“is God's plan” fails to recognize the Apostle Paul's own words that “I have not
failed to give you the WHOLE counsel of God.” Apparently not, since Paul forgot
to supply us with the counsel of Warren's Purpose-Driven model.
PASTOR BOB
DEWAAY'S COMMENTS:
1)
Pastor Hudnall makes a very bold claim--that Rick Warren has invented a
new operating system for the church. With computers, the operating system is the
most essential part of the computer. Take out the CPU chip and the computer is
dead and worthless. Can we believe that the Church itself is dead and worthless
without Warren’s plan?
2)
How can a program (PDC) not invented until the 20th century
have such a key role? Without the operating system the computer is dead. Does
this mean every church that existed since the Day of Pentecost was dead? If not,
then evidently these churches had something analogous to an operating system
before. So what was the previous operating system that is being removed and
replaced with the PDC one? The speech in question does not tell us what that old
CPU was that has to go. If they cannot answer these questions, their claims
should be dismissed.
3)
Biblically what is most analogous to an operating system in a computer is
Jesus Christ as the head of the church and the Holy Spirit as the life of the
church. Either PDC is removing these to replace them with the new processor or
PDC is not really a new operating system and they are making a false claim to
say that it is.
4)
The speech in questions uses the terms “God’s plan” and “Purpose Driven”
synonymously. In logic this is called “begging the question.” Why should we have
to accept the idea the Purpose Driven is indeed God’s plan before we have heard
any evidence that it is? They claim too much for a man-made program.
5)
They would have to admit that the Purpose Driven model did not exist
during the New Testament. It is up to them to prove that what they are doing is
able to improve on the teachings and practices of the New Testament, without
compromising them. They fail to prove this and there is much evidence that they
do compromise those teachings.
TODD HUDNALL:
....Back 1992 I became acquainted with
Dr. Warren and his Saddleback model for the Purpose Driven Churches, and heard
what God was doing at Saddleback. At that time I was looking for answers. And
when I saw this model, I said this is God's plan. This allows us to fulfill
what God wants us to fulfill for his church.
So I brought this model to our church we
begin to the church and we begin to see immediate church growth, of
consistently seeing 20% growth every year. Let me say that percentage is a good
percentage. When you get much faster than 20% it is difficult to keep up with
the growth. You can do it. But it becomes very difficult. Signs and wonders
and miracles begin to happen.
I have seen revival, but I have seen
revivals actually damages churches over time because they lose their focus, they
lose their purpose. They begin to see the move of God as something for them...to
help them fulfill their agenda.
RESPONSE:
The fact remains
that Rick Warren does have an agenda, that is his personal blueprint for the
earth.
PASTOR BOB
DEWAAY'S COMMENTS:
Again the speaker
(Hudnall) is begging the question. That he THINKS/THOUGHT that it is God’s plan
does not prove that it is. That his church grew and there were signs and wonders
does not prove this was from God. False religions grow and have signs and
wonders. What he does not prove is that the Purpose Driven model is taught in
the New Testament. He is appealing to personal experience rather than scripture.
We need to consult the Bible for the appropriate agenda.
TODD HUDNALL:
I believe God wants to bring a revival
to Kenya, but there needs to be a way to handle it. You can not pour new wine
into old wineskins. We've got to have a wineskin that the Holy Spirit
can use...that can contain the revival that God wants to bring. So I believe
that the Purpose-Driven model is such a wineskin.
RESPONSE:
Once again, Warren's
PDC program redefines the Scriptural meaning of words. The old wineskins
referred to by Jesus Christ himself were the Old Covenant and the Traditions of
the scribes and Pharisees...the religious leaders in Israel. The new wineskins
in Scripture refers to the New Covenant. There is no replacing the new
covenant. According to Hudnall's logic the church which functions as the new
covenant must be replaced by another new covenant or new wineskin. Rick Warren
has convinced millions of people that the church that must be transformed.
Warren's reformation reverses the first Reformation and insults the church at
large which has been persecuted and martyred throughout this present age which
somehow mistakenly thought it was carrying out the “deeds” of the New Covenant.
Rick Warren has usurped the authorship of the new wineskin. Purpose Driven
Church is a man-made invention of Rick Warren, therefore it is impossible that
it could be a new wineskin. The church does not need a wineskin that the Holy
Spirit can use (as though up until Rick Warren came along, it did not already
have wineskins that the Holy Spirit could use since the foundation of the
church)! In fact, in reality Hudnall and Warren have replaced the New Covenant
(new wineskin) with much of the SAME old wineskin of the Old Covenant and
Traditions of men, putting unnecessary burdens on Christians and stealing away
their liberty in Christ. Rick Warren and Todd Hudnall need to read the seven
woes that Christ laid on the Pharisees and scribes (see Matthew 23:13-29) as
well as the first chapter of Galatians before they continue to put Christians
right back under bondage. The old wineskin was Rabbinic Judaism and the Old
Covenant practices. The new wineskin is Messianic salvation and the church build
on the rock that the gates of Hell will not prevail against. What the gates of
Hell can't prevail against does not need replacing (with a new wineskin).
Judaism as it was would not be able to hold what God was doing such as in Acts.
The claim that some man-made movement that did not exist until the 20th
century is what Jesus meant by “new wineskins” is indefensible Biblically. The
new wineskin has existed since Pentecost and it will never become the “old
wineskin” until Jesus returns and sets up the kingdom. This shows that bad
theology and bad Biblical exegesis is common practice in PDC.
TODD HUDNALL:
You are to reach that community and
bring the community in to become part of the crowd, then after they become part
of the crowd, then after you bring them in to be part of the crowd ...you bring
them and make them be part of your congregation, then they become committed in
growing in Christ, finally they become your core people for ministry...turning
them into an army making them part of your core...your center.
RESPONSE:
This model is found
nowhere in Scripture and in fact is backwards regarding the order. Seek he
FIRST the Kingdom of God. Seek the light (His Word) and he will supply the
fellowship or community.
PASTOR BOB
DEWAAY'S COMMENTS:
This is the
fundamental error of the seeker movement. The Lord adds people to the church
through saving them (Acts 2:47). The “crowd” is outside of the church and should
be the subject of gospel preaching, not trying to change the church to make it
attractive to the unregenerate mind.
TODD HUDNALL:
BUILDING YOUR CONGREGATION...(Outer
Circle)
Concept of membership is very biblical.
It is taught all the way through the New Testament.
In First Corinthians Chapter 12, it
tells us that the Holy Spirit takes us when we receive Jesus Christ and plunges
us into the Body of Christ...In First Corinthian 13...you may be eyes, you may
be ears you may be nose...
'Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me'.
Saul could have said I'm not persecuting you, I'm persecuting the church. Jesus
is saying if you persecute the church you are persecuting the body and that is
me. ... We need to belong to the church family. Ephesian Chapter 2, Verse 19
says this: 'Now you are no longer strangers to God and foreigners to Heaven, but
you are members of God's very own family.' And you belong to God's household
with every other Christian. Notice we are members of his Body. Membership is
biblical. Romans 12:5 says this: 'In Christ, we who are many form one body, and
each member belongs to all the others.'
Now it is important that we explain the
benefits of membership, the value of membership and the importance of
membership. So when people come to your church you want to let them know that
they can become a member. And when people join, it gives them significance, it
gives them meaning, it gives them purpose, it gives them connection and it gives
them community...Church membership is really a step of spiritual maturity... How
you do it is you create a climate where people want to join. Now there are two
things that people crave most. People want love and people want acceptance.
All of us want that. We were designed to desire that. We want to be loved and
accepted; WE crave that....And those are the two things that Jesus commanded us
to demonstrate. In John 13:35, Jesus said this: 'By this you shall all men know
that you are my disciples that you love one another.' The church is to show
people that come to it love! Romans 15:7 says 'accept one another just as
Christ has accepted you'. We are to accept people that come in to our church
just as Jesus accepted us...
Now in American there is a stereotype
some have of the church of it being judgmental, of it being critical, of it
being condemning. The church should never have that kind of reputation. The
church should be loving and accepting to people. Now here is a fact you need to
know: 'Growing churches love, and loving churches grow.'...
RESPONSE:
Read God's Word. It
is judgmental, critical, and condemning to those who are in rebellion, not born
again, living according to their own plans. Biblical churches might shrink!
The Mormon church is loving and the Mormon Church is growing.
PASTOR BOB
DEWAAY'S COMMENTS:
Again there is a
purposeful erasing the boundary between the church and the world. He fails to
distinguish between membership in a 501 c 3 corporation (local organization that
people join) and membership in the body of Christ which happens through
conversion. The passages he cites have to do with the type of relationships true
believers have with one another. But in the PDC model, they integrate the
regenerate and unregenerate and confuse the unity of the corporation with the
true unity through the gospel that true believers have. That God is loving is
true. That we should be loving is true. But for the unregenerate to be
converted, they must be convinced they are law breakers abiding under God’s
wrath unless they repent. Telling them these truths is loving. The idea that we
will “woo” sinners into the church by being nice people; all the while failing
to tell them of the peril they are in as sinners is not Biblical.
TODD HUDNALL:
Church growth expert Wynn Arndt...he did
a study of 10,000 church members all over America and rated them according to
friendliness. And after he did the rating, he found that in every single
denomination, the friendliest, they were the fastest growing. And those that
were considered friendly, weren't growing...And if you want people to be a part
of your church, you have to create a climate of love and acceptance. Now the
single most important factor that causes people to stay in your churches is
relationships...People will come to your church for all kinds of reasons, but
they stay in their church because of relationships...Now the Bible refers to
biblical relationships by a word, and that word is fellowship.
RESPONSE:
The Bible also says:
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the
unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them].
PASTOR BOB
DEWAAY'S COMMENTS:
I wonder how
“friendly” they would consider Stephen:
ACT 7:51 ¶ "You men who are
stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy
Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
ACT 7:52 "Which one of the prophets
did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who had previously
announced the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you
have now become;
ACT 7:53 you who received the law as
ordained by angels, and yet did not keep it. "
Again, they make
the same error over and over: trying to “woo” the unregenerate by making the
church look appealing to them in their lost state rather than preaching for
conversions.
TODD HUDNALL:
And there is a lot of myths about
fellowship....Small churches are friendly and large churches are cold and
impersonal. And that's not true...Small churches can turn into a cliques. You
know what clique is? They won't let others in.....Actually often large churches
are more accepting, because the only way you are going to grow bigger is by
caring about individuals, not by caring about crowds.....an impersonal church
will not grow.
The largest church
in the world today is in Seoul Korea...is a church of
around 750,000 people...
RESPONSE:
He is referring to
David (Paul) Yongii Cho's church.
Is this a good example of a
Christian leader? What Hudnall failed to tell you is who the pastor of this
church is and what he teaches. Let us see what this man teaches:
Similar to Rick
Warren's SHAPE Program, Rev. Cho's Fourth Dimension theology is based on
occultist Carl Jung. “Cho's
mystical foundation is built upon the sands of
Sigmund Freud's and
Carl Jung's
subconscious mind rather than
the rock of Jesus Christ (1 Cor. 3:11).”
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/cho/general.htm
OCCULT
HEALING BUILDS WORLD'S LARGEST CHURCH: THE INFLUENCE OF PAUL YONGGI CHO
http://wayoflife.org/fbns/occulthealing.htm
PASTOR BOB
DEWAAY'S COMMENTS:
Agreed, Cho is
a heretic and if he is an example of anything, it is the example of compromising
the gospel to gain the approval of men.
HUDNALL:
We have to have our churches organized
in such a way that we create a climate of love and acceptance
... At Saddleback Church...we do the
same thing at our church...Every first time visitor we give 'first impressions'
card... Our church wants to serve you better. Would you please give us your
opinion. We ask three questions: this is what I notice first, this is what
I like best, this is what I like least. Let me give you some reactions of cards
at Saddleback Church:... 'people were warm and friendly, they were friendly
people, I feel warm and comfortable and at ease, there was a warm and loving
atmosphere, I felt comfortable and happy.'...The church is an organization
that is built for the benefit of non-members to see them become members.
RESPONSE:
This is just one
more example of the error in Warren's teachings...more Robert Schuller and Bill
Hybels. Opinions, opinions...and still more opinions...looking for the " I feel
warm and comfortable and at ease," response. Opinions were never the
foundation of the true churches built throughout the church age. How about
hearing a truly anointed, Holy Ghost breathed sermon? Where sinners cringe under
the mighty hand of God and whose hearts fail them because of the dread of the
Lord and his coming wrath, where they fall on their faces before the living God
or run to the altar to repent and be saved? The preaching of God's Word is
convicting!! That is the Work of the Holy Spirit! To convict- it is not
to make us feel comfortable in our sin!! Hudnall is advocating building a
community in direct conflict with the true work of the Holy Spirit. The world
will be offended at the preaching of Jesus, the true Gospel. They will be
extremely uncomfortable and hate it. So the Bible tells us this, again and
again. The church is not build for non-members. It is build for believers to be
trained up in righteousness and the instruction of the doctrines of the
Apostles. Certainly non-members will benefit if they repent, but it holds
virtually nothing for them as non-believers unless they are hearing the Word of
God. We already have Rotary Club and many other wonderful organizations that
offer community and good deeds, Once again, this is upside down and backwards
theology which is paving the way to Kingdom Now theology.
PASTOR BOB
DEWAAY'S COMMENT:
Agreed: “Woe unto
you when all men speak well of you.”
HUDNALL:
We have a three minute rule...you have
to greet people you don't know... One of the greatest needs people have is for
friendliness, there is a need for that. The church must provide friendliness.
People aren't just looking for a friendly church, they're looking for friends.
They're looking for relationships.
RESPONSE:
. Is this,
"friendship," the focus of the Bible? Does this even remotely resemble the
teaching of the Prophets, Jesus, disciples? I could address this further, but
Paul Proctor has already written one of the best articles which should help
demolish this stronghold entitled: Religious Relativism.
http://www.newswithviews.com/PaulProctor/proctor50.htm
PASTOR BOB
DEWAAY'S COMMENTS:
Agreed; this is
the same error repeated over and over, we have to give the unregenerate what
they are looking for. The Bible tells us what they are looking for:
EPH 2:3 Among them we too all formerly
lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the
mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
What they want is
not just friendship; but they want self-fulfillment in this world without
submitting to God on His terms.
TODD HUDNALL:
Now I want to say some things that are
not in the notes...I particularly want to talk to the pastors who are here...
How do you develop a caring congregation. Well let me tell you, it always
starts with leadership... One the greatest things you can do to help your
church grow pastor, is to smile.
RESPONSE:
I hear John Maxwell
coming out of every pore of this statement about leadership. Just 'put on a
happy face,” right? I can certainly imagine Hananiah the false prophet smiling
while he told the Israelites only good things are going to happen to them (see
Jeremiah 28:15,16). We know the Jeremiah wasn't smiling, Scripture only records
his great anguish. In fact there is whole book by Jeremiah entitled
LAMENTATIONS. So you can follow the smile, or you can follow the truth that
Jeremiah preached. Were David, Paul and Jesus...all of whom despaired unto
death smiling in this despair? The Book of Habakkuk is devoted to this prophets
COMPLAINTS. So shouldn't he have not complained so his congregation so he could
recruit more followers and so his congregation would grow?
TODD HUDNALL:
There is nothing worse than a sad,
sour, frowning pastor.
RESPONSE:
Actually there are
many things worse than a sad, sour frowning pastor....such as a smiling pastor
like Robert Schuller who is false teacher of the highest order, leading
multitudes astray. And Rick Warren is usually smiling and his teachings all
riddled with falsehood. I would much rather listen to the sad and frowning
Jeremiah or Habbakuk than to a smiling false teacher. And even a true teacher
may often need to be sad as Paul was with bitter tears and tearing his robes as
he watched false teaching come into the early church. A pastor should be sad
when there is sin in the body of Christ.
A smiling pastor
proves nothing. Doesn't Hudnall know that the siren's call of the harlot is no
doubt with a smiling face. Here are are accounts of flattering speech in the
Old Testament...I am quite certain these enticements to sin were not “sad, sour,
or frowning”:
Job 32:21 Let me not, I pray you, accept
any man's person, neither let me give flattering titles unto man.
Job 32:22 For I know not to give
flattering titles; [in so doing] my maker would soon take me away.
Psa 12:2 They speak vanity every one with
his neighbour: [with] flattering lips [and] with a double heart do they speak.
Psa 12:3 The LORD shall cut off all
flattering lips, [and] the tongue that speaketh proud things:
Pro 7:21 With her much fair speech she
caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him.
Pro 26:28 A lying tongue hateth [those
that are] afflicted by it; and a flattering mouth worketh ruin.
Eze 12:24 For there shall be no more any
vain vision nor flattering divination within the house of Israel.
And regarding people
being led astray with smiles on their faces, we read:
Isa 30:10 Which say to the seers, See
not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us
smooth things, prophesy deceits:
Jer 5:31 The prophets prophesy falsely,
and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love [to have it] so:
and what will ye do in the end thereof?
And how does Hudnall
think seducing spirits described by Paul are going to appear? With “nothing
worse than a sad, sour, frowning”? Are Satan's servants masquerading
as servants of righteousness going to come across with “nothing worse than
a sad, sour, frowning”?
Here are but
three New Testament Scriptures to refute Hudnall's false premise:
“For false Christs and false prophets
shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce,
if [it were] possible, even the elect.
Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.” Mark
13:22-23
“...by good word and fair speeches
deceive the heart of the simple” Romans 16:18
Th 2:5 For neither at any time used we
flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God [is] witness:
TODD HUDNALL:
...If you want to know the temperature
of your church, how warm your church is, the first thing you have to do is stick
a thermometer in your mouth. Because as goes the leader, so goes the
church...You've got to work at being friendly...personally I am a little bit of
an introvert...so I've had to force myself to get out of my comfort zone and
reach out...and be loving and be friendly....Be approachable, be real... We
have to continue to develop warmth and integrity and people skills. There are
many good books actually that can help you. I know many of you are familiar
with John Maxwell. He has written many books about people skills.
There
is a book very famous in America, and I think around the world by Dale Carnegie,
it is called How to win friends and influence people. It is not a
Christian book
RESPONSE:
John Maxwell
is the President of Injoy
Ministries which he began in San Diego and since moved to Atlanta, Georgia in
1997. For many years he was pastor of Skyline Wesleyan Church in La Mesa
(greater San Diego), California. His website is
http://www.injoy.com/. (Todd
Hudnall is presently a pastor in San Diego). He was one of the speakers at
Summer 2005's Willowcreek Summit with Rick Warren. John Maxwell's books are not
good books! This section on John Maxwell is an article in its own right so I
made it an appendix (see Appendix A), made all the more critical when I
discovered that John Maxwell wrote the foreward for John Jackson's book Pastorpreneur, the other major speaker at this same Purpose Driven
Church conference. John Jackson is also a promoter of apostate Dr. Robert
Schuller...see:
http://www.pastorpreneur.com/pp_impact5.html.
I recently corresponded with Kevin Trevithick
who is in charge of Warren's SHAPE (301
Class) program at Pastor John Jackson's church, Carson Valley Christian
Church in Nevada, website: http://www.carsonvalleychristian.com/. I had
written him an appeal to reconsider presenting this Jung-based personality
temperament divination to his members. In an email dated 3/17/2006, Trevithick
responded with defending his extensive theology training (at Fuller) and
stated: “I prefer associations with those who focus on what they are FOR,
rather than what they are AGAINST.” This is rather a startling response in
light of the fact that eight of the Ten Commandments are comprised of
what God is “against” and a great deal of Scripture is devoted to what God is
“against.” Upon visiting Carson Valley Christian Church's website, I discovered
that Rick Warren's temperament divination was not the only magic arts programs
being run there. They also conduct Martial Arts classes. If you think this is
a good Christian practice at a church, I invite you to read Rev. Ed Hird's
article: Taekwondo & the
Martial Arts: Mere Exercise or Trojan Horse??
http://www3.telus.net/st_simons/arm07.htm and
http://www.canadianchristianity.com/cgi-bin/bc.cgi?bc/bccn/0902/artidolatrous
as well as Linda Nathan's article entitled
Karate, Kids, and the Culture at
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/05/karate.htm.
This is in stark contrast to the what the Christians in the early church
did in the book of Acts where they burned magic arts books vs. promoting them.
Even the third
speaker Dr. Phil Walker (of the three major speakers listed on program as
Rick Warren's staff), touted John Maxwell. It should be pointed out that
Hudnall, Jackson, and Walker were not simply independent speakers who just
happened to show up and be speakers at the same event. Walker introduced
both Hudnall and Jackson, emphasizing how critical their message was to the
purpose-driven model. Jackson in turn also spoke of the urgency of Todd
Hudnall's purpose-driven essential components and the importance of hearing his
presentations. All three promoted Maxwell. The bottom line is that they all
reinforce each other, so there is guilt by association as well as
identification! And all three are major key global players and speakers for
Rick Warren's PDC agenda! Phil Walker is the President of International
Christian Ministries, where he also promotes John Maxwell. His organization
(ICM) has also formed a partnership unholy alliance with Dr. Ralph Winter' s
organization U.S. Center for World
Mission, including its Dominionist
curriculum entitled: Perspectives. If there remains any doubt that Ralph
Winter is a false teacher, I invite you to read the documentation that
corroborates it:
http://watch.pair.com/fuller.html. I refer
you to listen to Sarah Leslies' excellent speech on how Fullerton and PDC have
hijacked the church, available at:
http://www.pinebrook-aog.com/conference.htm.
Regarding Ralph Winter, I also invite you to read Al Dager's Media Spotlight
article: The World
Christian Movement
available at
http://www.intotruth.org/globalism/WCM3.html
ICM's website
http://www.icmusa.org/partnerships.php
website states: “ICM coordinates the programs of Purpose Driven Ministries in
Africa and the Middle East.” ICM has also formed a direct alliance with John
Maxwell from their website: “ICM has agreed to represent John Maxwell's Million
Leader Mandate in Africa. The goal of this program is to see over 300,000
leaders go through six courses developed by Equip. This program is scheduled to
run through 2008.” Phil Walker is a major global player in Warren's worldwide
Purpose Driven schematic who was responsible for setting up this conference in
Nairobi, as well as spearheading five seminaries and conferences in twenty-four
countries putting on two hundred conferences a year. So it is impossible to
dismiss the magnitude of John Maxwell's role and impact in Warren's Purpose
Driven Church campaign. Here is John Maxwell's endorsement of John Jackson's
book:
"If you're thinking your way through
developing a new church or being an agent for change in your present ministry,
Pastorpreneur is worth reading. John Jackson knows what he's talking about
because he's lived it..."
From the Foreword by John Maxwell Source:
http://www.pastorpreneur.com/reviews.html
Upon visiting his
own personal website as well as his church's website, I find that he too
promotes John Maxwell's books as valuable resources as well as Mormon author and
New Age promoter Stephen Covey. See:
Carson Valley Christian Center in Minden,
Nevada and the President of VisionQuest Ministries
http://www.drjohnjackson.com/who.html
http://www.carsonvalleychristian.com/
Dale Carnegie.
What in world is Hudnall doing promoting the book of
someone who is not a Christian to a conference of pastors and Christians? He
doesn't seem to have any problem with seeking the counsel of the ungodly and
promoting it on top of that. Hudnall quotes the Scripture in this
purpose-driven church conference that the natural man understands not the things
of the spirit, yet goes ahead and promote the natural man Dale Carnegie who is
not a Christian. The title alone from Dale Carnegies' book How to Win
Friends and Influence People should be a red flag to Christians and
particularly pastors like Hudnall. Hudnall should have said to this
congregation regarding Carnegie's title and teaching:
“Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye
not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever
therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.” James 4:4
Hudnall also seems
to forget 'Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth
not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.' (Psalm 40:4) Dale Carnegie, a
non-believer, tells us how to win friends and influence people while Scripture
tells us that friendship with the world is enmity with God. So, Mr. Hudnall,
you can't have it both ways!
TODD HUDNALL:
But it has very good principles about
how to be loving and how to be friendly toward people. Now let me give you some
ideas on how to show you are approachable towards people...people 'why did you
come to Saddleback and why did you come back?' People will see what they like
about the church...the positives Next explain to them the baseball
diamond...
RESPONSE:
Yes please do
explain to us the baseball diamond.
I discuss Rick Warren's baseball diamond in Appendix B. Warren's Discovery
Classes (his baseball diamond) 101 – 401 have little to do with salvation and
sanctification or Christian theology but are about taking oaths to commit ones
self to serving a PDC.
TODD HUDNALL:
Here is a letter that Pastor Rick
received from someone who visited his church and visited his house. They said:
'Pastor Rick is just a real person, like I am. I feel that he would like me
just as much as I liked him. This is an attitude you can even develop. Let me
tell you a place you can develop this pastors. It is in your pulpit.. When you
are real, people know that you have struggles. You too have challenges...just
be honest about it... That's one of the things about God. He became a man
so that he could become approachable in the person of Jesus....
RESPONSE:
And where is this
doctrine taught in Scripture? Jesus came to pay the penalty for sin and to
appease his Father's wrath! Having done this, Jesus Christ is not more
approachable...in fact he is a rock of offense, despised and rejected and we
esteemed him NOT. See Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 and:
Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay
in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him
shall not be ashamed.
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a
rock of offence, [even to them] which stumble at the word, being disobedient:
whereunto also they were appointed.
PASTOR BOB
DEWAAY'S COMMENTS:
Saying Jesus
became a man to become more approachable to we should therefore make ourselves
approachable is a misrepresentation of the purpose of the incarnation. It merely
makes Jesus a “good example to follow” rather than the unique One who provided a
substitutionary atonement.
TODD HUDNALL:
Dale Carnegie
said: 'There is no sweeter word in any language than a person's name to them.'
RESPONSE:
Of course if you're
trying to build a business, knowing the names the names of your customers is
very important. Of course it is universal that we all appreciate having people
in the church know our names. But from a Biblical perspective, hearing our name
is sweet depending on whether we are guilty or not! If hearing the voice of the
Lord calling out to them was so sweet to the hearing, then why did Adam and Eve
hide and cover their nakedness? God called out Cain's name after he murdered
his brother. Was Cain's name being called sweet for Cain to hear? Saul called
out Samuel's name in the account of the witch of Endor. Did Samuel think that
was sweet music to his hears? No, he was very upset at being disturbed from the
grave, when Saul practiced divination. And what about when Jesus asked the
demon-possessed man what his name was? The answer was “Legion, for we are
many”. Now were these demons think their name being called was “no sweeter
word” when Jesus then cast them out into a herd of swine? One demon even asked
Jesus if he came to torment them...as the time for them to be cast into the Lake
of Fire had not come yet. And Abraham, Jacob, and Saul in the Book of Acts, all
had had their names changed, so their new name would have been much sweeter
because the Lord changed their names. And this is now the second time we hear
Hudnall recommending the counsel of Dale Carnegie, a non-believer.
The sweetest word in any language should not be my own name, rather it should be
the name of Jesus Christ, the Rose of Sharon.
.TODD HUDNALL:
..Actually scientists tell us that by
not being touched enough can have skin deprivation. True we need to be
touched....
RESPONSE:
Is 'feely' 'touchy'
the proper focus of the church?
The Apostle said it was good to not even touch a woman.
TODD HUDNALL:
Why don't you say that with me: 'give
them a look, give them a word, and give them touch.'...Here is a copy of a note
that Pastor Rick Warren received from one of the people of his church. It said:
'Pastor Rick, I can't tell you what it meant to me when on Friday, you put your
arms around me in comfort. It felt as though Jesus' arms were holding me in
such compassion and tenderness. I know now that I will make it through this not
so exciting time. And I know he sent me here so I could feel God's caring
love'... Here is another note he received....'thanks for making me feel
special.'...Here is another thing, use humor....if you make jokes about
yourself, you will always have a lot to joke about...
Each of us have to make a decision.
Are we going to impress people or are we going to influence people. Because
you can't do both. You can impress people from
a distance, but you influence them up close... We have to get close to people if
we want to influence them.
RESPONSE:
This is more mumbo
jumbo. The Apostle Paul spent most of his time a great distance from the
churches he started and those he simply wrote to in his letters. He had great
influence on them at a distance. And he instructed his epistles to be read and
circulated to other Christians and churches, many of which were far away in time
and distance. In fact his influence throughout the Church Age is far more
extensive than any he saw or touched up close. Jesus Christ in fact even
rebuked Thomas for having to “touch” his wounds while commending those who
believed and obeyed who never even say Jesus' face in era, or the rest of us who
are Christians living in the 21st Century. I am in many ways more
influenced by brothers and sisters around the world that I correspond with that
I may never meet until the Wedding Supper of the Lamb. Conversely, I know many
people that I am up close to in which I have no influence and they have none on
me. Using geographic distance as formula is at best precarious and can be shot
full of holes simply by observing New Testament accounts of church life.
PASTOR BOB
DEWAAYS COMMENTS:
I would say that
he (Hudnall) creates a false dilemma. Either influence/ or impress. We are not
seeking to do either; we are seeking to be faithful to God through gospel
preaching so that He, by His grace will convert them. Whether they are
influenced or impressed with us personally is of little concern. The power is
through the Holy Spirit convicting.
TODD HUDNALL:
Healthy churches have pastors who are
not afraid to get up close to people. Accept and affirm diversity among your
members. Healthy churches focus on unity, on uniformity...
Now the thing
that we don't want to do is use guilt to motivate people.
Because that is not accepting. You see here is the reason a lot of us use guilt
to motivate people. Because it works. But it is not healthy. And over the
long term it is going to be damaging.
RESPONSE:
This notion is
patently absurd. All of the Prophets of the Old Testament laid a guilt trip on
the people, whether Noah, Jonah, Jeremiah, etc. Guilt is good if you are
guilty...that means you are convicted of sin. The preaching of repentance in
both testaments was to point out their guilt. Over the long term it is damaging
if you refrain from teaching them they are guilty...as 'all have sinned and come
short of the glory of God.' Guilt motivates people to repent. So do you think
they are going to repent if they think they aren't guilty, if faith cometh by
hearing...but they never hear that they are guilty as Warren tragically does in
his Ladies Home Journal column? As to what is “healthy”....the healthiest thing
that Nathan the Prophet could have done to David was to tell him he was guilty
in his adultery with Bathsheba. David was motivated to repent! Pastor Bob
DeWaay demolishes this stronghold of false teaching about a healthy church in
his book Redefining Christianity. As a pastor, you better worry if your
congregation is not motivated by guilt. People with reprobate minds whose
consciences have been seared like a hot iron are not motivated by guilt. This
is the FINAL stage of apostasy and could not be more UNHEALTHY. The Scriptures
warn us about this state of mind. Christians everywhere should be thankful to
the Lord that they still have the ability to feel guilty...it is a great and
righteous motivator!!!
PASTOR BOB
DEWAAYS COMMENTS:
The Biblical
pattern is to preach the law that shows people their own guilt before God and
preach the gospel so they see the only hope for escape. We are not motivating
them to serve us, but to turn to God and receive the free gift of salvation. He
(Hudnall) doesn’t make it clear about motivation to do what, so it makes the
issue muddy.
TODD HUDNALL:
We have a
membership class in our church. And some issues that we teach are personal
preferences and personal convictions are up to the individual...I shouldn't
judge him over his convictions and he shouldn't judge me over my
convictions...preach the word, live your convictions. Don't preach your
convictions. And in your church, if you want to be an accepting church, you
have to accept the fact that you can't push convictions on people. Everyone has
to live their own convictions...understand that we live in a time when people
mainly don't choose a church because of its denomination. They choose a church
that meets their need..
Romans 14:19 says
this; 'Let us concentrate on the things that make for harmony and the growth
of our fellowship together.'
RESPONSE:
He uses the PH
translation. Let us Compare this verse to KVJ:
“Let
us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith
one may edify another.” Romans 14:19
Note there is
nothing in there about church growth! In fact there is nothing in Scripture
that gives us a mandate to grow the church or commandments to do so!
TODD HUDNALL:
Augustine
said this: 'In essentials we have unity, in non-essentials we have liberty, and
in all things we show charity.”
RESPONSE:
“This famous motto
of Christian Irenics, which I have slightly modified in the text, is often
falsely attributed to St. Augustin (whose creed would not allow it, though his
heart might have approved of it), but is of much later origin. It appears for
the first time in Germany, A.D. 1627 and 1628, among peaceful divines of the
Lutheran and German Reformed churches, and found a hearty welcome among moderate
divines In England.” SOURCE:
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/hcc7.ii.vii.viii.html
TODD HUDNALL:
You see there are
some essentials, you have to believe that salvation comes through faith alone in
Christ alone...
RESPONSE:
Yes, the doctrine of
salvation through faith alone is essential (as this is what the Reformation was
about). Countless Christians could have saved themselves from being burned at
the stake by simply denying this Sola Scripture doctrine. It is curious as to
why Rick Warren is forming an unholy alliance with the Roman Catholic Church for
his purpose-driven programs when the Roman Catholic Church put forth in the
Council of Trent that those Protestants who hold such views are anathematized
(cursed).
TODD HUDNALL:
Now if you will do
some of these things as a leader and you treat people with love and acceptance,
you'll have no problem in getting people to come to your church.
COMMUNICATE THE VALUE OF MEMBERSHIP....
what membership should be is not
conformity, but commitment... That is the difference between someone who just
attends your church and someone who is becoming a member of your church. An
attender is a spectator. A member is a participant. An attender is consumer,
but a member is a contributor....You become a
Christian by committing your life to Jesus Christ. You become a
church member by committing yourself to another group of Christians. Now it
is not just a commitment to God it is a commitment to other Christians. If you
are going to become part of the church, you become part of a family. A family
where you love...and where you are loved....and all members, the Scripture says,
belong to one another. It's called fellowship The Greek word is the word
Koinonia...It means being committed to each other just as we are committed to
Jesus Christ. That is genuine fellowship. Now there are three parts to
the Christian life...Believing (Acts 16:31), Belonging (Ephesians
2:19)...and then Becoming (Romans 8:29)....and a Believer without a
church family is an orphan. There should be no orphan Christians. You need to
be part of a church family...There are at least 30 commands in the New
Testament that you can not obey unless you are committed to a local body of
believers...You can't do that unless you have other believers around you. So in
your church, you need to communicate the value of membership. And you do it by
telling people the benefits of membership.[end side one]
RESPONSE:
So let me get this
straight. Pastor Hudnall is suggesting that if you are a Christian and not a
member of local church, you are an orphan. Well just to be sure, I did a search
on Blueletterbible.org for every occurrence of the word “orphan” in the
Authorized King James Bible. To my great surprise, the word did not even come
up on the search. So I checked the New American Standard and other
translations. The word came up, but in cross-referencing it to the Scriptures
the word orphan was translated as “fatherless.” I also checked it against the
Greek and once again it is the word “fatherless”. So, you might ask 'what's the
difference?'
Well let's go back
and plug in the more accurate rendering of the word into Pastor Todd Hudnall's
axiom. It would now have to read: 'a Believer without a church family is
fatherless'. Now we are not referring to literal orphans which are fatherless,
rather this teaching by Warren's ambassador is referring to the spiritual
definition of “orphan” or a believer in Christ who is supposedly an orphan. Is
this true? Well let's examine the relevant Scriptures to find out.
Jhn 1:12 But
as many as received him,
to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe
on his name:
"I will not leave you as orphans;
I will come to you.” John 14:18 NASB
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the
spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption,
whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
2Cr 6:18 And will be a Father unto
you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under
the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons,
God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba,
Father.
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto
the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good
pleasure of his will,
Now even if we were
to use Todd Hudnall's definition of a Christian “orphan”. He would not be
referring to literal orphans...his intent is obviously spiritual orphans. Yet
it is the height of hypocrisy to label believers without a local church as
“orphans” when in fact it is Warren's Purpose Driven Church model that has
created a host of “orphans” by purpose-driving them out of church after church
as evidenced in part by this documentation of how Rick Warren uses spiritual
eugenics for his policy of selective reduction of saints he calls “resisters”
and “pillars” along with his partner John Southerland (Churchtransitions.org)
calls Sanballats ('leaders from Hell') and Valley View Christian Church, a PDC
in Dallas, Texas which promotes 'Creative Destruction', and the Assemblies of
God call 'We Build People' and 'Transformation' (based on Warren's
principles) . For proof see: Spiritual Euthanasia
http://www.letusreason.org/Current61.htm.
This article is posted on a number of ministries around the world. Just type
the title in your Google search engine for a list of them.
Therefore, I think
we would all be wise to let Jesus Christ and his Apostle Paul define who is an
orphan (fatherless) in a spiritual sense. And Jesus did come when he sent the
Holy Spirit at Pentecost. So from that time forth EVERY Christian ceases to be
an orphan the nanosecond or twinkling of an eye, they become a believer and
remain so. Hudnall would have us believe that there are now two classes of
Christians...one group that are members of a local church and therefore not
fatherless vs. another group which remain orphans until they become a member of
a local church. But the Bible teaches that without Christ, all men are orphans
and in Christ, none are orphans. So there are two groups all right. All men
who are Christ-less are orphans and all men who are not saved are now no longer
orphans but adopted sons!!! And just like the Judaizers that both Jesus and
Paul warned us about and Paul even cursed, no sooner are Christians set free in
Christ, then Rick Warren comes along and puts them right back into the bondage
of the Law, Traditions and philosophies of men...a program that would be a
Pharisee's dream, shipwrecking the faith of many, putting them in a worse state,
and disqualifying themselves for the ministry. In conclusion, it is true that
are commanded to not forsake the assembling of one another. But forsaking the
assembling, or simply being in transit between churches, or being forced or
purpose-driven out of a church does not make a Christian an orphan.
PASTOR BOB
DEWAAYS COMMENTS:
