To understand bible prophecy about the return of Jesus Christ, we need to understand the Jewish Wedding as presented in scripture, because Christ spoke of his return with many Wedding Analogies. Matt 22, Matt 25, Rev. 19 & 21, Luke 12:36, "And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding..."

The Holy Bible says the Bride of Christ is the Church.
Eph 5:25 "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church... ",
2Cor 11:2 "...I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.",
Rom 7:4...."ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead..."

My Response:

Lev 19:34 But the foreigner that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Note the foreigner is part of the assembly of Israel.

Dan 9:19,Micah 7:18-20,Isa 54:5-8, Ezek 43:7, Hosea 1:10-11, 2:16-19,23,Jer 51:5, 30:7 and Romans 11:1 all reinforce this point.

The church is not the bride of Christ, the bride of Christ is Israel, the TRUE ISRAEL of God contains both the Jews (chosen people) and the Gentiles that have been grafted in.  I can see why this confusion has crept in because for 1600 years Israel has been replaced with the Church and it is not your fault that you perhaps didn't know about this, all the words that are translated Church in the Greek Bible are better translated Qahal (Assembly, congregation) of God and since there is only one bride not two, else we would have many contradictions.  The Septuagint translated Qahal as Ecclesia and it makes sense that the assembly of Yahweh is not gentile but Israel mixed with Gentiles.

The blessing that was given to Ephraim by Jacob Gen 48.19 stated that he was to become Ha Melo Goyim (Multitude of Gentiles) entails that gentiles are not only spiritual Ephraim but some of the gentiles would be biological Ephraim i.e. the ten tribes of Israel.

I could give you several other examples to show you why the gentile church is into idolatry just like Ephraim brought idolatry into Israel and also the gentile church is guilty of bringing in replacement theology, changing the law of God, His feasts and all these things were also the sin of Ephraim who was adopted into the family just like the gentiles.

Exodus 12:38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.

When Israel left Egypt the Bible is our best witness that it was a mixed multitude that left Israel not just the Hebrews.

To nail the coffin we only need look at Jeremiah 31:31, could you please show me if ever a covenant was made with a Church?

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Please note the RENEWED COVENANT which incorporates the OLD COVENANT is with the two houses, the house of Israel and the house of Judah, now if you are saying the church is raptured before the tribulation it cannot be so because if we really ask who is the assembly/church then it was always the Jews and the Gentiles were attached to this assembly, now if a rapture occurs the whole of Israel that is the twelve tribes of Israel disappear with the gentiles that are grafted in and we have no one left on earth at all yet Revelation 12 specifies that Israel is on earth!

In order for the church to have a legal justification it needed to be party to the covenant that is made in Jeremiah 31, yet we find no covenant ever made with a gentile church and if this document or evidence cannot be proved then we need to be careful not to make the gentile church into the house of Israel because it just doesn't work and that would be replacement theology, although bear in mind I do not accuse of doing this but this is the road you would end up on if you held these views.

Chris wrote:

The Wedding Analogy shows the Pre Tribulaiton Rapture because the union of the bride and groom (the rapture) takes place at the start of the Bridal Week, which is a type of the Tribulation Week.  The word for bridal week as used in Genesis 29 & Judges 14  is the same word in Daniel 9:27.  The word "week", or shavuah in Hebrew, simply means a seven, it means seven days or seven years.  Further, there are two Old Testament examples where a day from a prophetic type turns into a year of judgment.  Num 14:34 & Ezek 4:6.

My response:

If this was the case then how come the early church fathers failed to notice this and actually believed in a post tribulation rapture yet these people were not only close to the events but also understood much of the culture?

Early in the third century Hippolytus wrote;

‘Now concerning the tribulation of the persecution which is to fall on the church from the enemy (he has been speaking about the Antichrist and about the Antichrist's persecution of the saints and continues in the same vein). . . . That refers to the 1,260 days (the half of the week) during which the tyrant is to reign and persecute the church (Treatise on Christ and the Antichrist 60-61).'

This leaves absolutely no room for further argument or manoeuvre because scripture must match end to end. 

Rev 7:9-14 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

These verses do not teach pre or mid tribulation as the verses in Rev 7:9-14 clearly are answered in the positive that "These are they which came out of the great tribulation". 

Revelation 7:14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know.'' So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The Greek word “erchomai” come is a verb in the statement of Revelation 7:14 "These are they who “come” out of the great tribulation" is in the present tense which normally indicates continuous action.  The people of the great multitude come out of the great Tribulation one-by-one through death, not all at once as in the rapture of the church.

Chris wrote:

Here are a few key examples of the significance of the Wedding Parallel. The bride price is paid by the groom for the bride.  Jesus paid for us with his life. The virgin girl shows that she accepts the written covenant agreement of the marriage by drinking a glass of wine, and this has become the communion ritual that Jesus gave to the Church.  The betrothed bride would also have a ritual cleansing bath, and this is like baptism of water and spirit, or the cleansing of the word in Eph 5.

My response:

The funny thing is that Jesus was against traditions of men so did not give anything new to the church especially the communion because he was referring to the Passover not a new ordination.

 

Chris wrote:

The groom departs to build the bridal chamber where they will live together, and Jesus said John 14:2 "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." John 14:3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

My response:

Yes that is fine that Jesus Christ has gone to prepare the house for the bride but it does not prove a pre-tribulation rapture in anyway no more then a mid or post tribulation.

 

Chris wrote:

When finished, the groom would return at a time unexpected "of that day or hour no man knows" to fetch, or take away (rapture) his bride, like a thief in the night, which is a type of the action of the rapture. 

My response:

The thief in the night is an indefinite period of time nothing more.  If this was the case then how come Peter was given the prophecy that he would live to a ripe old age (John 21:18-19)?

What about fulfilling of the other prophecies of the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD (Matt 24:2) which was yet forty years away, the dispersal and re-establishment of Israel in 1948 (Isaiah 66:7), this idea of the thief in the night is just not accurate to say it is immediate.

At the end of Judges 21, there is a mass bridal abduction.  In Deut 22:25-29 and Exodus 22:15-17 we see that the penalty for taking a virgin (through force or seduction) is a permanent marriage with no divorce provision.  This is like the "incorruptible immortality" as described in the rapture passage in 1 Cor 15:51-54.

My response:

Again this is misapplication of scriptures, nothing to do with the rapture at all.

Thus, the intimate union between man and wife in the bridal chamber is a picture of being in heaven with our Lord Jesus Christ after the rapture.  At the end of this bridal week, the bride and groom emerge at the wedding feast or marriage supper.  Even the slaughter at the marriage supper, or Armageddon, is pictured in Judges 14 as Samson kills 30 Philistines.

I urge all who read this to study more of these Wedding Parallels, which teach about the pre tribulation rapture, and the type of relationship our Lord Jesus Christ is seeking with us.
 

My response:

I have and know the procedure of a Jewish wedding and also I am from an Eastern culture where I have a lot better understanding of these concepts but that does not satisfy the requirements of a pre-tribulation rapture as ALL the symbolism could be applied to the post tribulation and the scripture fits with those only.

Chris wrote:

Dear, shimoun  ( rapture different then glourious appearing )
paul said blessed hope well which is more of a blessing and a hope that the pre trib is correct or that we ride through the whole thing ? I must say pre trib since it makes me have the most hope.

My response:

Our hope is in the return of our Lord Jesus Christ not on some pre-conceived idea of a fifteen-year-old girl named Margaret McDonald in a lengthy vision in 1830 describing a pre-tribulation rapture which was never given in scripture.  This is a lie and a copout that we must be careful not to teach our fellow brethren.  This dislocates scripture left right and centre yet many faithful teach this lie.

Chris wrote:

be honest post tribulation can be a strong delusion since what if gog magog war happens and then antichrist takes credit for israel being saved i guess you would be fooled then right ?

My response:

I am sorry I don't see how the antichrist can take credit for Israel being saved when clearly the battle of Gog and Magog should be seen as two battles, one before the return of the Lord and one after the millennium which would be a correct view.

Chris wrote:

I believe all of us should study there are many views out there.

My response:

Yes I agree we should study, there are many views out there but scripture only teaches us one view, that is post tribulation and many saints being killed through the tribulation by beheading by the anti-Messiah system which is radical Islam Rev 20:4 so we have to believe scripture not the jo public with their opinions.  We believe the public only if it reconciles with scripture that is the litmus test.

Chris wrote:

I just wanted to tell you that i would hate to think that god almighty would want to have his bride to be to be beat up right before the wedding , gog magog is mentioned in revelations at the end of the book not in the begining or the middle , the gog magog of the book of revelations should be called gog magog 2 like world war 1 world war 2 , type of thing
one happens before the rapture ( no theres no secret rapture since many many people will be here panic wide spread destruction and the horrors that follow ). maybe there is a gog magog and rapture connection i dont know , but the gog magog of revelations happens 1 thousand years after christ return.

My response:

Yes there is the battle of Gog and Magog after the Millennium when Islam is no more and also there is the Gog and Magog battle before the millennium Ezekiel 38 so we cannot ignore all the Islamic armies coming up to fight Israel before the Millennium backed up by many ancient prophets, Psalm 83, Zechariah 12,14 etc.

Chris wrote:

Like i have said before gog magog war happens and ends on the mountians and theres no sign of the 200 million man army in the gog magog war like there is in armagedden war.
christopher brother in christ.

My response:

Do you think that somehow mountains of Israel are removed from Israel?  Jerusalem is part and parcel of this battle and in fact the reason why the battle starts is because of the burden of Jerusalem (Zec 12:2) by the Islamic armies who will capture most likely East Jerusalem and kill many people there.

Simon your brother in Yeshua.

Chris second mail:

Revelation

Speaking of Revelation, the structure of that book also implies a pre-Tribulation Rapture in a sym­bolic sense. The first three chapters focus on the Church. Chapter 4 begins with the door of Heaven opening and John being raptured from the isle of Patmos to the throne of God in Heaven.

The Church is not mentioned thereafter until Revelation 19:7-9 when it is portrayed as the “bride of Christ� in Heaven with Jesus celebrating the “marriage supper of the Lamb.�

At Revelation 19:11 the door of Heaven opens again, and Jesus emerges riding a white horse on His way to earth, followed by His Church (Rev. 19:14).

The rapture of the Apostle John in Revelation 4 appears to be a symbolic type of the Rapture of the Church. Note that it is initiated by the cry of a voice that sounds like the blowing of a trumpet (Rev. 4:1).

Since the Tribulation does not begin until Revelation 6, the rapture of John in Revelation 4 appears to be a symbolic type that points to a pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church.

Some counter this argument by pointing out that although the Church is not mentioned in Revelation during that book’s description of the Tribulation, there is constant men­tion of “saints� (for ex­ample, Rev. 13:7). But that term is not used in the Bible exclusively to refer to members of the Church.

Daniel uses it to refer to Old Testament believers who lived long before the Church was established (Dan. 7:18). The saints referred to in the book of Revelation are most likely those people who will be saved during the Tribulation, after the Church has been taken out of the world.

Paul’s Assurance

An interesting argument in behalf of the pre-Tribulation timing of the Rapture can be found in 2 Thessalonians. The church at Thessalonica was in a turmoil because someone had written them a letter under Paul’s name stating that they had missed the “gathering to the Lord� and were, in fact, living in “the day of the Lord� (2 Thess. 2:1-2).

Paul attempted to calm them down by reminding them of his teaching that the day of the Lord would not come until after the Antichrist is revealed. He then stated that the Antichrist would not be revealed until a restraining force “is taken out of the way� (2 Thess. 2:3-7).

There has been much speculation as to the identify of this restraining force that Paul refers to. Some have identified it as the Holy Spirit. But it cannot be the Holy Spirit because there will be people saved during the Tribulation, and no one can be saved apart from the testimony of the Spirit (John 16:8-11 and 1 John 5:7).

Others have identified the restrainer as human government. It is true that government was ordained by God to restrain evil (Romans 13:1-4). But the governments of the world are in rebellion against God and His Son (Psalm 2), and they are therefore a contributor to the evil that characterizes the world.

Furthermore, the Tribulation will not be characterized by a lack of government. Rather, it will feature the first true worldwide government (Rev. 13:7).

In my opinion that leaves only one other candidate for Paul’s restrainer - and that is the Church. It is the Church that serves as the primary restrainer of evil in the world today as it proclaims the Gospel and stands for righteousness. When the Church fails in this mission, evil multiplies, as Paul graphically points out in 2 Timothy 3:1-5. Paul says that society in the end times will be characterized by chaos and despair because “men will hold to a form of religion but will deny its power.� When the Church is removed from the world, all hell will literally break loose.

Escapism?

The pre-Tribulation concept of the Rapture has often been condemned as “escapism.� I think this criticism is unjustified. The Bible itself says that Christians are to “comfort one another� with the thought of the Rapture (1 Thess. 4:18). Is it a comfort to think of the Rapture occurring at the end of the world’s worst period of war instead of at the beginning?

Regardless of when the Rapture actually occurs, we need to keep in mind that the Bible teaches that societal conditions are going to grow increasingly worse the closer we get to the Lord’s return.

That means Christians will suffer tribulation whether or not they go into the Great Tribulation. And that means all of us had better be preparing our­selves for unprecedented suffering and spiritual warfare.

Chris third mail
 

Post-Tribulation Rapture
FIRST A QUICK THOUGHT ( BELIEVERS WILL SEE YESHUA IN THE SKY )
THE BEING CAUGHT UP TO MEET CHRIST ISNT THE SECOND COMING ,SINCE YESHUA IS IN THE CLOUDS , AND HIS FEET ARE NOT ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES SEE THIS IS TWO SEPARATE EVENTS .)

Those who place the timing at the end of the Tribulation usually base their argument on two parables in Mat­thew 13 and on the Lord’s Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24.

In Matthew 24 the Lord portrays His gathering of the saints as an event that will take place “immediately after the tribulation of those days� (Matt. 24:29). This certainly sounds like a post-Tribulation Rapture. But it must be kept in mind that the book of Matthew was written to the Jews, and therefore the recording of Jesus’ speech by Matthew has a distinctively Jewish flavor to it as compared to Luke’s record of the same speech.

Note, for example, Matthew’s references to Judea and to Jewish law regarding travel on the Sabbath (Matt. 24:15-20). These are omitted in Luke’s account. Instead, Luke speaks of the saints looking up for deliverance “to escape all these things� when the end time signs “begin to take place� (Luke 21:28 and 36). The saints in Matthew are instructed to flee from Judea and hide. The saints in Luke are told to look up for deliverance.

It appears, therefore, that Matthew and Luke are speak­ing of two different sets of saints. The saints in Matthew’s account are most likely Jews who receive Jesus as their Messiah during the Tribulation.

The saints in Luke are those who receive Christ be­fore the Tribulation begins. Most of those who accept the Lord during the Tribula­tion will be martyred (Rev. 7:9-14). Those who live to the end will be gathered by the angels of the Lord (Matt. 24:31).

The parable of the wheat and tares (Matt. 13:24-30) and the parable of the dragnet (Matt. 13:47-50) can be explained in the same way.

They refer to a separation of saints and sinners that will take place at the end of the Tribulation. The saints are those who receive Jesus as their Savior during the Tribulation (Gentile and Jew) and who live to the end of that awful period.

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture

I believe the best inference of Scripture is that the Rapture will occur at the beginning of the Tribulation. The most important reason I believe this has to do with the issue of imminence. Over and over in Scripture we are told to watch for the appearing of the Lord. We are told “to be ready� (Matt. 24:44), “to be on the alert� (Matt. 24:42), “to be dressed in readiness� (Luke 12:35), and to “keep your lamps alight� (Luke 12:35). The clear force of these persistent warnings is that Jesus can appear at any moment.Only the pre-Tribulation concept of the Rapture allows for the imminence of the Lord’s appearing for His Church. When the Rapture is placed at any other point in time, the imminence of the Lord’s appearing is destroyed because other prophetic events must happen first.For example, if the Rapture is going to occur in mid-Tribulation, then why should I live looking for the Lord’s appear­ing at any moment? I would be looking instead for an Israeli peace treaty, the rebuilding of the Temple, and the revelation of the Antichrist. Then and only then could the Lord appear.Focus

This raises the issue of what we are to be looking for. Nowhere are believers told to watch for the appearance of the Antichrist. On the contrary, we are told to watch for Jesus Christ. In Titus 2:13 Paul says we are to live “looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.� Likewise, Peter urges us to “fix our hope completely on the grace to be brought to us at the revelation of Jesus Christ� (1 Peter 1:13). John completes the apostolic chorus by similarly urging us to “fix our hope on Him� at His appearing (1 John 3:2-3).Only Matthew speaks of watching for the Antichrist (Matt. 24:15), but he is speaking to the Jews living in Israel in the middle of the Tribulation when the Antichrist desecrates the rebuilt Temple.Wrath

Another argument in behalf of a pre-Tribulation Rapture has to do with the promises of God to protect the Church from His wrath. As has already been demonstrated, the book of Revelation shows that the wrath of God will be poured out during the entire period of the Tribulation.The Word promises over and over that the Church will be delivered from God’s wrath. Romans 5:9 says that “we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him [Jesus].� 1 Thessalonians 1:10 states that we are waiting “for His Son from heaven . . . who will deliver us from the wrath to come.� The promise is repeated in 1 Thessalonians 5:9 - “God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.�

My response: