Rabbi Simon versus a Muslim

Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 8:39 am [EST]

From: crankthatskunk (crankthatskunk@yahoo.com)

Message:
Simon, I have seen your video on the interpretations of mark of the beast. I think it is waste of time to comment on your incredible and unsustainable accusations on Islam and Prophet (SAW) of Islam.

You sir would have difficulties to even substantiate the text of the Bible you quoted and its authenticity as either word of god or link it to the actual source you used to level such frivolous accusations.

The purpose of my message is to ask you some simple questions on the concept of God in the Holy Bible.

I am ready to engage with you in a written debate on the authenticity of the text of the Bible whenever you wish or willing. I seriously doubt If you can even prove the Bible to be the word of god revealed to Jesus or the Bible containing his actual words or deeds. I am sure, you are well aware no historic record linking Bible to Jesus exists. History is completely quite on the existence of Jesus of the Holy Bible.

Just to stop you wasting your time, let me say, I am well aware of Christian’s fraud in the writings of Flavius Josephus and other proofs quoted by the Christians apologists to link the Bible with Jesus.

Let me get to the real purpose of my message to you, the Concept of God in the Holy Bible. Could you please provide answers to my very naïve questions. Once I get your response, I should be able to take the discussion forward and ask for further explanations and answers.

1-What is your opinion and believe about Jesus As (Isa As) based on Bible's teachings.
A- He (AS) was God?
B- He (As) was Son of God?
C- He (As) was part of the Trinity?
D- Are there 3 Gods or just one God?
E- If there are 3 Gods; are they equal in powers?
F- Or is there only one God but exists in 3 different bodies and shapes?
G- If he (as) was God, then do you claim God visited the earth in the shape and body of “Jesus” As? (Which God did you see on the Day of Judgement? Was it Jesus as god?)
H- Did God visited the earth before “Jesus” (As) was born from Hazarat Maryam RA or Mary RA?
2-Did anyone have ever seen God, according to the Bible?

Best Regards

You are most welcome to do a written debate but you have made one mistake. I am not a Christian and neither support many frivolous Christian errors. Also if you are going to debate the Bible and the God of the Bible then equally so I would debate with you the God of the Qu’ran does that make sense?

You claim my videos are unsubstantiated. I don’t know which videos you are talking about however if you refer to the Mark of the Beast video on youtube then you talk from ignorance without presenting any quotation or evidence which rejects my view.

Now to your questions I think as usual you are trying beat up a straw man. Whether my God exists or not your god for sure is a non existent entity since Muhammad prior to declaring his prophethood for Allah worshipped Statues in the Kabah and was also an uncircumcised man. You may be ignorant but his father Abdullah was a regular worshipper in the Kabah. Furthermore I have no reason to object Muhammad being a prophet of Allah. That is fine because Allah is not my God but yours and Muhammad is your saviour and not mine. I do not go to dead people to ask for Salvation.

Now as for Jesus there is no such person called Jesus in the first century. His name was Yahushua while your Qur’an picks up the name Esa conveniently out of the Greek texts of the New Testament in which he Yahushua is referred to as Iesous. This alone renders the Qur’an a document which borrows text to justify its false claims. So you are telling me that the Bible has no validity and people had no salvation until the Qur’an turned up. That is simply a ludicrous claim.

1-What is your opinion and believe about Jesus As (Isa As) based on Bible's teachings.
A- He (AS) was God?
B- He (As) was Son of God?

-- Yahushua is God, the Son of God is simply an endeared title to His relationship with the Father in Heaven. Now you may think we are talking about two gods but we are not. When he became a human or took on Human flesh he was not a man/god on earth but simply in his human flesh a man like any other men but the only difference was that he was sinless. Angels take on human flesh but they do not appear in their light form but only in human form.

-- No. God is a plurality or as the ancient disciples believed as dual powers in heaven. No Trinity.

-- Shma Y’sra’el Adonai Elohenu Adonai Achad (Hear O’ Israel our God is One God).

-- The ancients knew that God could simultaneously be on earth and in heaven as he was revealed to our forefathers such as Abraham when our God was standing on the earth while he was commanding fire on Sodom from what appeared to be God in heaven. This is the picture of both Father and the Son what I spoke of earlier. In Judaism it is termed emanations. We call it dual powers in heaven (Gen 19:24). The Holy Spirit or the power of God is never seen as a person this is where Christians confuse trinity from however in the godhead it is mentioned as the Spirit of God or as Wisdom Proverbs Chapter 8.

G- If he (as) was God, then do you claim God visited the earth in the shape and body of “Jesus” As? (Which God did you see on the Day of Judgement? Was it Jesus as god?)

-- The Day of Judgment is not upon us yet but in future we will see Yahushua who will judge the earth upon his return.

H- Did God visited the earth before “Jesus” (As) was born from Hazarat Maryam RA or Mary RA?

-- As I illustrated read Gen 19:24. We see two active powers revealed in the Universe. We simply label them as the Son and Father based on what is revealed in Scripture. If there is a Father then there is a Son and also a Mother but these are earthly things or names we use however no one can see God and live in his real form as the light of the universes.

Now that I have answered your question then you should answer mine about your God Allah.

1) Allah has never revealed himself to Muhammad as a man or even through an angel becoming a man then how does Allah can Allah have a relationship with men since he never reveals himself outside of Muhammad or the alleged Gabriel. Note for you Muhammad is dead and he does not speak to you then how will you ever have a relationship with Allah?

3) Where is Allah mentioned prior to the Qur’an in any ancient scriptures name me the book and verse.

For time being I am going to completely ignore your comments about the Holy Quran, Prophet SAW and Allah SWT. Don’t worry I am capable to respond to every argument you can imaginably put forward. But as I said let me take care of your Bible first and foremost. Remember I am not the one who has levelled accusations it is you who have levelled baseless accusations against Islam and Muslims. I am only taking you up on your own book Bible and see how can you defend the most fundamental principle, the concept of God.

What accusations? That Muhammad is not the prophet of YHWH? Indeed that is so. You live in your own dream world and a world of shadows. What I said is both accurate and true. Muhammad is a prophet of Allah and not the God of Israel. Don’t waste my time with your nonsense with which you think you will impress others and not here..

“-- Yahushua is God, the Son of God is simply an endeared title to His relationship with the Father in Heaven. Now you may think we are talking about two gods but we are not. When he became a human or took on Human flesh he was not a man/god on earth but simply in his human flesh a man like any other men but the only difference was that he was sinless. Angels take on human flesh but they do not appear in their light form but only in human form.”

Is jesus your uncle that you keep calling him that name? Indeed Yahushua visited the earth in human flesh relinquishing his divine nature. That is too much for you to grasp with your hypocrite lying tongue. I know who you are.

6 Who, being in the form of Elohim, thought it not robbery to be equal with Elohim:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient to death, even the death of the execution stake.

Matt 27:43 He trusted in Elohim; let him deliver Him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of Elohim.

I told you very clearly without any agendas that Yahushua is both God and the Son of God. A father can be both a Father and a son in a human relationship. In this context Yahushua is the Son of God because he was begotten by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit (Mother) and The Father in heaven see Luke 1:35. The Holy Spirit is the feminine side of God for your info. Also note that the only thing that was borrowed from Miriam was her womb the rest came from heaven.

You pretend to know not while your document the Qur’an also confirms that Miriam was a virgin and the child was a Holy One which your translators cleverly translate as ‘pure’.

Sura 19:19 He said, "I am only the messenger of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure boy." In some other translations of the Qur’an it says holy which the Muslims dispute.

While Muhammad who you run after for your salvation declared that all have been touched by Satan but Miriam and Yahushua. So what does that make him?

First you wrote a categorical statement Yahushua is god. But as is the common practice by Bible believers, you hedge your bets by saying the Son of God is used only to reflect his relationship with the Father in heaven.

No I do not hedge my bets and by the way you are not the king of the Universe that I would need to hedge my bet by believing in several things. Laughing you only expose yourself w.

Your saviour Muhammad has been dead since 632 CE and has not arisen to help any of his followers and neither will he in the future. The dead do not respond only the living do.

As for my Saviour he rose from the dead three days after his death and went up to heaven which even the Qur’an confirms trying to make itself a holy document which it is not.

As I said in my last e-mail we see them as dual powers and yet both powers have communication with each other as the Father and the Son. I don’t need to use your words as they do not reflect what I know to be true. You want to call them personalities that is your problem not mine. You are forcing words in my mouth and it is not necessary. Why? I am not falling into your trap Satan’s seed?

As I expected you jumped to the third ridiculous position, on earth he became sinless man not god. For time being leave Angels out of it, just explain and answer my questions in simple words once again.

n Yahushua is God, the Son of God is simply an endeared title to His relationship with the Father in Heaven. Let me give you a verse to satisfy my answer:

Ps 2:7 (AFNHSS) I will declare the decree: hwhy has said to me, You are my Son; this day have I brought you forth.

The Abbah in heaven brought forth His Son from His bosom which is clearly stated in John 1:18 also.

No dithering Rabbi just simple answers. Either he was God or son of god. Can’t be both, so your response should be yes for one and no for the other.

I have given you scriptures above. I don’t dither I answered very succinctly without any issues of tongue twisting while it is you who dithers and beats around the bush.

I will come to Jesus existence later (whatever name you want to give it to him). But first let me see if you are capable of answering simple question on the concept of God from the Bible in clear and precise manner.

-- If you are going to speak in this tone I will stop the discussion here. You are not my master so stay in line or … Also who is this Jesus fella? Is he your uncle (smile)? Get your facts straight before you debate Rabbi Simon.

“Now as for Jesus there is no such person called Jesus in the first century. His name was Yahushua while your Qur’an picks up the name Esa conveniently out of the Greek texts of the New Testament in which he Yahushua is referred to as Iesous. This alone renders the Qur’an a document which borrows text to justify its false claims. So you are telling me that the Bible has no validity and people had no salvation until the Qur’an turned up. That is simply a ludicrous claim.”

Where did I claim or try to proof anything from and about the Holy Quran or mentioned anything about the name of Jesus?

Your claim is implied in the question. I am not naïve. You can deceive the Christian world but I know you very well.

Don’t worry Mr. Altaf I am capable of answering your allegations but let’s not divert from the main topic, the concept of God. Once you satisfy all my questions on concept of God we can discuss deeper issues, first prove that you are capable to prove such a fundamental issue of God.

--- What is it going to be Altaf, Rabbi or something else? Make up your mind devil worshipper.

If you are going to answer my questions then why did you not answer my first question about Muhammad prior to declaring his prophethood for Allah worshipped Statues in the Kabah and was also an uncircumcised man clearly an idolater? Can you explain why he was an idolater?

As I stated to you before your credentials are nil before me and you are a gentile who is behaving with pride bringing your heathen religion and telling me what is and is not right. I give you time here only because you knocked on my door. Normally I do not debate Muslims in e-mails but only face to face. You got the guts to do that or do you like to hide behind your computer so the police don’t arrest you?

But for you not to accuse me, I will give simple answers to your questions in the later part of the above paragraph. I know Mr. Altaf; you are spreading so many lies about Islam and Muslims, that’s why I have got in touch with you. So be patient, first let see how much you know about the Bible.

We Muslims do not believe people didn’t have salvation before the Holy Quran. Far from it, we believe Allah SWT send His SWT’s revelations through Prophets in the past. People attained salvation (your concept) through those revelations. But I am sure you already know the concept of Salvation through Jesus is not Islamic concept but the concoctions of the Christians.

We also do not believe that God has taught different religions to the nations and successive generations through different prophets. According to the Holy Quran, all the Prophets brought teachings of Islam i.e. “Self surrender to God” and they were all “Muslims” i.e. they surrender themselves to God”.

So before we continue the debate you will have to prove what you just said. Please show me where Allah suggested we worship him? I need quote from the Torah of Moses and not the Qur’an which came 2200 years after the Torah. You may not believe that our creator is not called Allah but that belief makes no earth shaking difference to me or my life. You may not believe it rains but that does not mean it does not rain. You have swallowed a camel yet you pretend to know all about religions. OK I am waiting to discuss the point with you before I move on. I am not going to address an of your other e-mail until we have addressed this one question and when I am satisfied that we have addressed it then we will continue. Now tell me how does this feel when I look down upon you? This is why I warned you earlier not to treat me like a child and you being the adult that you are not.

I am sure you being an ex-Muslim know all this quite well. You got huge problems to prove the validity of your newly adopted religion. I can easily prove that the Bible is corrupted and cannot be relied upon. Therefore, your questions are self-defeating. I can easily ask you to provide the original text of the Bible as revealed to the Prophets and prove the authenticity of the Bible. Can you do that?

I can do much more. Your foolishness is evident in your questioning. Satan also said that he can climb the stars of heaven and your speech resembles of your father Satan.

“-- No. God is a plurality or as the ancient disciples believed as dual powers in heaven. No Trinity.”

What? You mean God is more than one? What do you mean with plurality? As you may know plural means anything from two to infinity. You also said as the ancient disciples believed as dual powers in heaven.

In the first paragraph you said, Yahushua is God, but then contradicted yourself, by saying “son of god” is title to his relationship with the “Father in Heaven”.

Go and read my paragraph above again. Stop humouring yourself its not funny really.

Hmm, so how and why Yahushua has to had a relationship with the Father, if he himself is god? Relationship by definition means between two or more people. A single person cannot have relationship with himself.

The Godhead is not about persons. You are again forcing words in my mouth. I told you dual powers. There is communications and a relationship between these dual powers. This is how love is defined. Love in not defined in Isolation. This is not the monad Allah that exists without any consciousness. There is real consciousness in the creator we serve. Some people may choose to call the dual powers personalities that is their choice however the best word is powers as used in the ancient text.

The earlier disciples of Yahushua also believed in the same. Is it important for you to know how they communicate or why? So you want to force certain words so you can create a straw man then beat it up and claim victory? I told you I know your father the devil very well and know how to defeat him because I know his weaknesses with the power given to me through the Most High.

Once again in precise manner, how many gods are there in your plurality, precisely?

Care to explain which ancient disciples are you referring here? Please spit out the pagan sources of your beliefs.

You seem to be getting a little exacerbated and impatient. Here is the list of disciples of Yahushua go read it up.

“Shma Y’sra’el Adonai Elohenu Adonai Achad (Hear O’ Israel our God is One God).”

You proving once again how confuse the Bible have made you. In earlier paragraph your answer was “God is plurality” i.e. more than one, but now you said God is one God. Make up your mind Rabbi (or shall I call you Mr. Altaf, we both know you are no Rabbi) one God or plural gods?

I don’t need to verify my title from a heathen. The Most High placed these on myself and no man can take them away or even refute them and by the way a Yahudi from Jerusalem came to confirm my creds. The real God’s servants are recognised but Satan’s servants parade about as if they are special but fail to impress those who know God to be true and faithful.

“-- The ancients knew that God could simultaneously be on earth and in heaven as he was revealed to our forefathers such as Abraham when our God was standing on the earth while he was commanding fire on Sodom from what appeared to be God in heaven. This is the picture of both Father and the Son what I spoke of earlier. In Judaism it is termed emanations. We call it dual powers in heaven (Gen 19:24). The Holy Spirit or the power of God is never seen as a person this is where Christians confuse trinity from however in the godhead it is mentioned as the Spirit of God or as Wisdom Proverbs Chapter 8.”

Mr. Altaf, now you probably would understand you are in deep pickle. You may be already aware how ridiculous bible is on the concept of God.

Do you like pickle? I like mango pickle especially the variety of Ghulab from India and also the Pakistani one Ahmad is quite nice. Was that not also the name of Muhammad I mean the pickle Ahmad? So who is into pickles? You or me? A recent Muslim scholar from Egypt said Muhammad’s real name was not Ahmad but something completely different so go figure.

You are another extension of the confusion. You claim you are a Rabbi but still trying to prove Jesus as god, which no Genuine Jewish Rabbi would ever do.

Why should I care what another Rabbi said or not? I don’t beat the same old drum that is the difference between me and them. I know my Saviour personally while they have yet to know him.

Are you trying to say, when god was visiting earth during the time of Abraham he was on earth as a man exactly like Jesus was on earth as a man? Or you and I are on earth as men?

Well let me ask you what does it appear like to you. Did Abraham eat food with God or an Angel? Read Gen 18:1-8. Now you tell me the answer I am waiting for your response?

Secondly, you also say the God was also in the Heavens. Which one was God out of the two at the time? Were there two gods one on earth in human form and the other in the Heavens in God’s form?

Dual powers as stated earlier perfectly understandable by me and others who wish to know. God is in more than one place at the same time. The Son has been given authority upon the universe to rule and reign and that was witnessed in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

I am well aware of the concept of emanation its classical exponent was Plotinus. He nevertheless never mentioned Christianity in his works. You are trying to teach me his concept of Emanation ex deo (out of God), confirming the absolute transcendence of the One, making the unfolding of the cosmos purely a consequence of its existence or emanation. But you may be aware that Plotinus also used Sun as an example, like it emanates light without diminishing itself.

First emanation is “Nous” (divine mind, logos or order, thought, reason) identified with the Demiurge in Plato’s Timaeus. And from Nous proceeds the World Soul, which is subdivided further.

Sun just spread its light into the solar system. Sun light reflects on different matters. But different matters reflected in sunlight do not become the sun. Secondly, the concept of “Nous” or first emanation is linked to logos. We all know what are logos and what are its origins.

What a shame, you and your philosophy and reliance on Pagan’s ideas and teachings unrevealing with first simple set of questions. But never mind, I pretend and continue with my quest.

Here is what I said and you have twisted my words just as your father Satan does.

I stated IN Judaism it is termed emanations. Did I say I believed it is an emanation? Are you humouring yourself again. Don’t waste my time, you only make yourself look like a fool.

You state:
G- If he (as) was God, then do you claim God visited the earth in the shape and body of “Jesus” As? (Which God did you see on the Day of Judgement? Was it Jesus as god?)

The Day of Judgment is not upon us yet but in future we will see Yahushua who will judge the earth upon his return.”

Yahushua will judge the earth (I think you mean people on earth) after his return to earth? What return are you talking about? As you said he was on earth at the time of Abraham. And many times ever since, am I right? So how many returns he wants?

Secondly, you said, Yahushua will judge, i.e. Yahushua is god. What happened to your earlier claim of his relationship with “Father in Heaven”?

Wouldn’t Jesus be on Earth once again as human in his second coming? Are you suggesting two different rules here? In his second coming Jesus will be on earth as a god and not as a man?

Who is Jesus? Your uncle? That you so lovingly keep repeating the 500 years old name. If he is not your uncle then his name is not Jesus as I told you before.

Nothing happens to the relationship of Yahushua with the Father our Abbah in heaven. Our Abbah has set him as the king so it is He who has been given the right to Judge the world. Do you have a problem with this Mr Devil (Allah) worshipper? Oh, I thought these days you are pretending to be a Christian or was that a lie also?

”H- Did God visited the earth before “Jesus” (As) was born from Hazarat Maryam RA or Mary RA?

“As I illustrated read Gen 19:24. We see two active powers revealed in the Universe. We simply label them as the Son and Father based on what is revealed in Scripture. If there is a Father then there is a Son and also a Mother but these are earthly things or names we use however no one can see God and live in his real form as the light of the universes.”

First you said there is no trinity and now you have come back to Father and Son non-sense once more, despite saying categorically God is one. You are also writing two active powers revealed in the Universe. In earthly language two means two, not one. Secondly what powers are you referring to exactly?

You are a very confused man Mr nameless. Have you noticed Satan’s disciples never give their names while the Most High’s always do? You are so in love with the trinity that you are having a hard time accepting from me that there is no trinity right? You and I both know that the concept of persons in the godhead is idolatry so let’s not go there.

No. Read my statement again. I stated that the Holy Spirit is the actual feminine side of Elohim so the two came together the Holy Spirit and the Father on High and the righteous Miriam’s womb was borrowed that is all. Read Luke 1:35.

The funny part in above paragraph, no one can see God and live in his real form as the light of the universe(s). People have seen god when he visited earth, or not? When he was on earth he was not the light of the universe but a worthless human being, right!!! So who was in the heavens running the affairs of this universe as “Father in Heaven”?

Now Satan reveals his vile side of accusation and lying? You noticed why I called you the disciple of Satan? Because you are a worthless disciple of Satan and I am not afraid of Satan or you.

If you speak lies then you won’t receive an answer from me. Read Philip 2:6-9 again for your answer. It addresses this same question in the Scriptures.

God was visiting earth before Jesus as you claimed he did at the time of Abraham and subsequently many more times. I don’t think I have to quote different verses of the Bible to prove it to you that god had been visiting the earth regularly. I am sure you know all those verses.

Anyway let me ask you another relative question. If god was visiting earth for centuries as a man from the time of Abraham, as you wrote, “This is the picture of both Father and the Son what I spoke of earlier”. Why he has to be born of Mary?

Yahushua stated the following to Phillip who also asked a similar question but he was not deceived like you or had an ulterior agenda since he had nothing better to do like you these days. What happened your meetings cut short or you struggling to make dates to fool Christians?

John 14:8-10 (AFNHSS) Philip said to him, Master (Adonai: Lord), show us the Abbah, and it is sufficient for us. 9 vSwhy said to him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet have you not known me, Philip? He that has seen me has seen the Abbah; and how do you say then, Show us the Abbah? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Abbah, and the Abbah in me? The words that I speak to you I speak not of myself: but the Abbah that dwells in me, he does the works.

The father is always invisible and no one can see the Father but the Son. It was always the Son who visited in the fashion of a man. Why the need for him to be born through a flesh and blood Miriam? Because in the last days he was meant to be revealed to the world as a baby since the prophets had said that he would. See Gen 3:15 and Isa 7:14.

“Yes. Revealed in human form to the prophets such as Abraham, Moses, Gideon etc. “

Thank you, so all these people and many more have seen god in whatever form, but it was genuine god who was visiting earth, am I right to conclude? But you earlier said no one could see god and live.

When God visited earlier fashioned as a man anyone could see him and live but it is in his divine state that we cannot see him and live in his original form which is both invisible to the eye and dangerous to our bodies as we will immediately die. If one could compare God to a nuclear reactor where you cannot face radiation then one could assume God is a gazillion nuclear reactors and even that number would be too small but that is what we are talking about a light that no man or woman can stand, even the angels cannot stand this light and have to cover their eyes.

“Now that I have answered your question then you should answer mine about your god Allah.

Allah has never revealed himself to Muhammad as a man or even through an angel becoming a man then how does Allah can Allah have a relationship with men since he never reveals himself outside of Muhammad or the alleged Gabriel. Note for you Muhammad is dead and he does not speak to you then how will you ever have a relationship with Allah?

Simple answer, Mr. Altaf , God does not have to show himself as man to convince men of His existence. His SWT existence is in everything with in this Universe. Like we can feel the breeze without seeing it. Same way we can feel the Presence and Majesty of God in everything He SWT created in the Universe, including Jesus As. He SWT never revealed Himself to anyone, not even to Muhammad SAW or Jesus As for that matter.

Is that why you see his name in Tomatoes? Does that mean a tomato is Allah and we should not eat it?

Anything that claims to be a deity of some sort cannot exist outside a relationship because you also claim Allah is love so how does Allah love? Who did Allah love in eternity to be love? Since love by definition is an attribute of relationship and in order to have a relationship you must have two. Is that not what you told me earlier.

So if Allah appears in a tomato how do I know it is Allah? By the way I like eating tomatoes, does that mean I am eating Allah since he is in a tomato and afterwards he comes out through the excrement whicih is why our Elohim calls your god dung? Do you know that was something the idolaters did as worship but I won’t bore you.

Secondly, I am sure you are aware we Muslims do not give any Shape or Form to God. We Muslims believe according to the teachings of the Holy Quran He SWT is beyond Human perceptions. The Holy Quran is very clear on the concept of God. No confusions whatsoever.

I know what you believe however your Qur’an is not very clear on the concept of god since Allah but nothing but an idol in Mecca in 580 CE which Muhammad’s father worshipped. One minute Allah is there as an idol and the next he is gone as an idol because the Qur’an said so. You live in circular reasoning and that is never a good thing.

You therefore admit that you have blind faith, is this what you call faith in Allah? You simply declare your allegiance to a book which was lost after Muhammad’s death, changed by many hands and then reappeared in the 9^th century. Is this what you call putting your faith into a text which has no reliability. Just like Allah one minute an idol which the Arabs venerate to and the next he is up there with his two daughters and his wife. You want me to show you that too which you ripped out of your unholy Qur’an?

God revealed his messages to Prophet Muhammad SAW through Gabriel like he revealed His messages to other prophets including Isa As or Jesus As. Islam is consistent all the Prophets brought the same message of Islam and were conveyed the Wahi through Gabriel As.

Which Gabriel? The real one or the one working for Satan? He claimed to see Gabriel and do you know who was the man who told him it was Gabriel? I want to hear it from you since you claim to know so much about your religion.

Muhammad SAW has passed away from this planet earth, but he SAW has left what was revealed to him SAW, the Holy Quran, which is our guidance until the Day of the Judgement.

Which Qur’an do you believe in? Uthman’s Quran, Saleem’s Qur’an or Abu Bakar’s Qur’an? And don’t pretend I don’t know these things.

So I am correct. You believe in a document that has no authority or validity and just blind allegiance. When blind lead the blind they both fall into a ditch. Muhammad is already there and you are next. Is that where you want to be?

Yes, Allah SWT is Love and He SWT would also Punish the evildoers, who had been warned in the Holy Quran.

Now you are playing childish games, you should know from your Bible I could petty much destroy every argument you possibly bring.

You could not destroy an ant if it be not the will of Yahushua but the word of God is a sharp two edged sword. Be careful before He cuts you down. Your big words Satan’s disciple are only being wasted with me because they have no effect.

Where is Allah mentioned prior to the Qur’an in any ancient scriptures name me the book and verse.

I can give you answers from the Old Testament with the difference in accent and pronunciation due to different languages. But for time being tell me which Scriptures are you referring to?

you should know from your Bible I could petty much destroy every argument you possibly bring.

Now how is it possible that you need to rely on the Bible which you don’t believe in which you said is a bad text? Look at yourself talking. So you are going to teach my ancient Hebrew now are you? OK, go ahead show me from the Torah of Moses.

Could you provide authenticity to any of the Divine Books included in the Bible, with proofs that they were revealed to the Prophets by God, or any books prior to the Bible?

You contradict yourself. One minute you are intent on the destruction of the word of God and the next you are pleading for proof. Who told you that we should prove the bible to Satan and his followers? If you were a genuine seeker I would show you proof but as you are not you do not deserve to see its proof.

What I can see, you couldn’t even respond to few simple questions and already have given your game away, by providing the ideas, which had nothing to do with the Bible. Ideas, which are Pagans in their origins and Philosophies.

The only one playing games is you. My answers are unique and you don’t know how to address my answers so now you will resort to ad hominem. Another trick of your father the devil.

“We are Hassidic, Sephardic and middle-eastern Jews and ex-Muslims and believe in the Torah of Moses as the law of G-d which is subsequently illuminated through the prophets (Tanach) and fully revealed in the Messiah Yahushua (NT) who was also similar to the Hassidic the son of Yosef but born of the righteous virgin Miriam.”

I know the Hassidic Judaism was founded in Eastern Europe, in18^th century by Israel Ben Eliezer also known as Baal Shem Tov.

And, Sephardic Judaism is based on Shulchan Aruch and recent work by Ben Ish Chai. Its practices are derived from Kabbalistic school of Isaac Luria.

You actually are not from either of these groups, neither you are a Rabbi. You are half way house, trying to preach the new concoctions preach by many recently the idea of “Jews for Jesus”. You during your interview accompanied by your wife on RTV also claimed that you accepted Jesus Christ, i.e. become Christians leaving Islam. Mr. Altaf it is quite apparent that you have been swinging like a pendulum, or as they say, falling on all fours wherever and whenever you see gold.

Ad hominem another of Satan’s tactics when he cannot get his way. Satan’s followers do not even know that it was not Baal Shem Tov who started Hassidic Judiasm.

During your interview on RTV speaking after the lady who left JW you said, we were similar like her in kind of an organisation. That was not correct Mr. Altaf, you and I both know, Islam is the only religion in which you do not have to belong to a church or organisation and still be Muslim. For example I as a Muslim, I do not belong to any organisation, do not follow anyone else’s rules or order, do not belong to any sect and I am still a Muslim. I only follow the Holy Quran and Prophet Muhammad SAW. That’s all a Muslim had to do, rest is not obligatory on Muslims.

During that interview you also said, you believe there is only one God and human have created differences by corrupting the teachings.

That’s what Islam teaches all the Prophets brought “Islam” to their followers. God couldn’t have Taught different set of Laws and ethics to different generations through different Prophets.

More vacillating… Nothing of substance. Trying to prove that the ancient prophets believe in the corrupt Islamic satanic religion that removes people from any hope of Salvation in the Messiah.

That’s what I am going to do, to beat you in your own games and prove that Bible is corrupted and it is you who are now following the corrupted teachings, taught to you by lying pens of scribes.

Here you Satan’s follower admit with your own tongue that the Bible is corrupt yet you speak like a snake out of the two sides of your mouth asking for proof of its validity. Is that not what the serpent said in the garden? Did God really say (Gen 3:1…?

My mode of operation is simple, if you believe in the Bible, either the OT or NT as the un-corruptible word of God then it should be free of all errors. If it is not, then its authenticity and reliability is in question.

Take example of a court case, if a witness found to be telling lies, the Judge would reject his whole testimony. The Judge will instruct the jury to set aside whole of his testimony as unreliable. Most probably the Judge would also sent his testimony and evidence of his lies to the Prosecution Authority for him to be charged for perjury.

Even your wife had some really unpleasant things to say about you after you came under the influence of Moshe Koniuchowsky of YATI. You sure you can even face different verses of the Bible after following Moshe’s advice in his book “Sex and Believer”?

Let’s be honest, you are an ex-Muslim from Lahore who has lost his identity for financial gains or perhaps to gain political asylum in the west. You were not expecting me to write to you without knowing your history?

But like I said, lets move to the first point, can you explain the concept of God from the Bible, successfully without get in to spin?

So you believe in the unholy Qur’an which has ripped pages from it and discarded text? That shows the hypocrisy you live in.

Your beloved profit or was it prophet (money centred) disciples ripped the verse out of the Qur’an in Sura 53:19 yet you are questioning the authenticity of the Bible. You take from the Torah you hypocrite and you have the audacity to tell a servant of the Most High to prove the document you steal from.

You tell me where did you get the circumcision from? I want you to show me Chapter and Sura of the Qur’an. Where did you get the idea of circumcision from? Was it the uncircumcised Muhammad or my father Abraham you got it from?

Rest of your claptrap snipped not worth answering since you are so in love with the book sex and the believer why don’t you go ask Moshe about it…

I know who you are so don’t pretend I did not recognise you. The Holy Spirit has revealed your identity. This is the last e-mail from me Satan’s child.